Thoughts?
Ed
kau sau
Ed, I practice in the Dallas, TX area with students of sifu Cottrell and they use kau sau. This is the first time I have come across kau sau.
Rindge
It’s in the dummy form, so I would guess that it’s pretty common. Can’t comment on “every” lineage.
Kao sao?
Of course.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;913992]Kao Sau?
Of course.[/QUOTE]
Same here, although I wouldn’t go as far to say it originates on the wooden man sets.
Method of huen sau imho.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;914041]Same here, although I wouldn’t go as far to say it originates on the wooden man sets.[/QUOTE]I didn’t say it “orignates” there. I just pointed out that it is included within the dummy form.
Kao sao
It is there in the slt that I do everyday.
joy chaudhuri
Where in SLT
Joy, if you don’t mind me asking, where in slt is kau sao? I might be thinking of something else.
Thanks
Rindge
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;914054]It is there in the slt that I do everyday.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
To rindge-on kow sau
After part 2 of the sil lim tao, i,e., after the section where you have the gum saos and then the spreading arm fan saos.
The next part begins with the section where you do the kao with the left hand towards the right shoulder, then you snap a reverse jut to the left while pointing fingers to the center line then do a chanjeong front wards at the neck level-then you do the huen, close the fist and return elbow to the side. Some folks do a pak instead of a kow there- but you have already done the pak earlier after the slow motions…no need to repeat the pak there.
Except for the huen, fist and return of the elbow to the side you generally do not repeat motions in the form apart from the repeats in the slow section where you do the tan, wu and fok.
The kow has a slight hooking look to it compared to the pak and goes more towards the shoulder than the pak. The kow among other uses when well practiced can control some punches- hook type coming close towards your head. Using a different structure and facing, a western boxer could say that a parry is an equivalent.
You can do timing and flow work with the kow.
Hope this helps.Regards,
Joy Chaudhuri
Oh Yea!!!
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;914087]After part 2 of the sil lim tao, i,e., after the section where you have the gum saos and then the spreading arm fan saos.
The next part begins with the section where you do the kao with the left hand towards the right shoulder, then you snap a reverse jut to the left while pointing fingers to the center line then do a chanjeong front wards at the neck level[/QUOTE]
Im right with you here, Joy. We call the Kao Sao a ‘receive inward’ and the next move a Moy Jet(receive outward) and then the palm.
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;914087]The kow has a slight hooking look to it compared to the pak and goes more towards the shoulder than the pak.
Joy Chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Exactly
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;914087]After part 2 of the sil lim tao, i,e., after the section where you have the gum saos and then the spreading arm fan saos.
The next part begins with the section where you do the kao with the left hand towards the right shoulder, then you snap a reverse jut to the left while pointing fingers to the center line then do a chanjeong front wards at the neck level-then you do the huen, close the fist and return elbow to the side. Some folks do a pak instead of a kow there- but you have already done the pak earlier after the slow motions…no need to repeat the pak there.
Except for the huen, fist and return of the elbow to the side you generally do not repeat motions in the form apart from the repeats in the slow section where you do the tan, wu and fok.
The kow has a slight hooking look to it compared to the pak and goes more towards the shoulder than the pak. The kow among other uses when well practiced can control some punches- hook type coming close towards your head. Using a different structure and facing, a western boxer could say that a parry is an equivalent.
You can do timing and flow work with the kow.
Hope this helps.Regards,
Joy Chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Hi Joy, you used to term fan sao. That might be a faahk (whisking) hand to us. I’m also not sure if your kow sao is our toi or wan sao. Is there some place I can see it online?
Hi again Joy, is photo number 9 on the link below what you’d call kau sau?
http://www.awcaonline.com/forms/mukyanchong.html
Phil R
Hi Phil- unfortunately i am a tech nincompoop on videos and stuff. “ED” of Windy City Wing Chun
may have something on his site.
I dont know TWC terms and labels vary from time to time in wing chun and so do pronunciations.
My fak is in my biu jee. But some folks call our fun-fak. But there is a difference.
Fun sao -the palms are facing down in slt whereas the fak in biu jee has the palms facing out for the front fak.
joy chaudhuri
Phil
Thats a completely different school- some leung Ting influence in it possibly.
Photo #9 if I saw the right pic is not our kow sow.
Regards, Joy
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;914149]Thats a completely different school- some leung Ting influence in it possibly.
Photo #9 if I saw the right pic is not our kow sow.
Regards, Joy[/QUOTE]
Thanks Joy, I wish there was spread sheet/chart or something that explained the varied WC terminologies.
Terminologies
Pjil said:Thanks Joy, I wish there was spread sheet/chart or something that explained the varied WC terminologies.
Hi Phil- the following link can point to usage of terms that are fairly familiar to me.
http://www.fongswingchun.com/terms.html
But of course
terms will vary across kung fu families. Plus as you know English representation of Chinese
varies in the case pf Cantonese terms…sao, sau etc(long live anarchy!) and pronunciation additionally is likely to vary by region and class.
The latter is true of other languages as well including English.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;914926]Check:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MAFO7dGj3k
at about 1.15 minutes
Regards,
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Thanks for taking to time to post that clip. Can you explain the application of the kow sao? If it’s what I think it is we have an upward and side (tarn/daahn) sao. The side daahn sao isn’t in the form but you can see the upward daahn (some people say tarn), in the form around 3:16 here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8kwEt6RvYk
I did the form “by the numbers” so our new students could see it better. The form has dynamics that I didn’t do there.
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;915096]Pjil said:Thanks Joy, I wish there was spread sheet/chart or something that explained the varied WC terminologies.
Hi Phil- the following link can point to usage of terms that are fairly familiar to me.
http://www.fongswingchun.com/terms.html
But of course
terms will vary across kung fu families. Plus as you know English representation of Chinese
varies in the case pf Cantonese terms…sao, sau etc(long live anarchy!) and pronunciation additionally is likely to vary by region and class.
The latter is true of other languages as well including English.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Now that’s a glossary. 
Thx,
Hi Phil
Thanks for the link to the clip on your slt. I looked carefully at that part from about 3.16 to 3.19.
There are differences in details between that part and what we do. I am sure that you have your reasons for what you do.
You do two fak saos earlier while I do a fan sao. So its not just a difference in labels but a difference in the motions. Our openings are different- you do circling feet
and we dont- not in the slt. Later in the bj.
Your gum sao-s pressing palms go away from the body whereas mine doesnt.
My kao sao turns in and up more than what you have around 3.16. My kao is used on the dummy’s upper hands in a similar way.
Thanks for sharing. Ed of Windy City doing the slt and the glossary that I posted hopefully provides additional background and clarification. I work a lot on timing the kow sao by itself as well as against close quarters attacks and in “sparring”- without gloves.
I respect what you do.
Good wishes and thanks for the link and the open-ness in conversation across lines..Its good to discuss similarities and differences without sarcasm and invidious comments. Good wishes.
Joy Chaudhuri