Is it a need of a different SLT and SNT set within a system?
if yes, why is it?
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim?
Re: Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim?
That’s not the whole story though. From what I’ve read on these forums, some lineages have a Siu Lien Tau set, where ‘lien’ means training, not ‘thought’. So the pronunication of ‘thought’ as Nim or Lim is an issue that does not apply.
Whether the actual content of the SNT or SLT sets is substantively different is another question I am not qualified to answer.
Re: Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim?
Yes, I understand this is true when referring to the Little Idea set in the Cantonese dialect. Literati use the “n” sound, the common vernacular has more of an “l” sound.
Matters become more confused when one or the other Romanization is used in an attempt to denotate a different set (Little First Training??). As I have heard, the sound is similar for both phrases, though the representative characters differ.
Regards,
- kj
Hendrik,
Leave the HFY guys alone. They have their dogma, you have yours. No amount of argument, no amount of discussion, no “logic”, etc. can or will settle whether a certain training method is useful or not, or is more effective or not. That can only be determined by examining the results that the training method in question produces (there is, btw, a lot of evidence out there about training methods). If anyone believes their training methods are “superior” then they should be able to show the “superior” results (fighting skills) produced. If they can, then their view should be taken seriously; if they can’t, they are just blowing smoke.
Terence
KJ sez:
Yes, I understand this is true when referring to the Little Idea set in the Cantonese dialect. Literati use the “n” sound, the common vernacular has more of an “l” sound
Thus I have heard too-KJ.
Lots of different intonations varying with region and class.
((Generally for me)- down with the literati and snobbery.
The literati sold the rebels out in the pacification of the south(Chima)
Originally posted by t_niehoff
[B]Hendrik,
1, Leave the HFY guys alone. They have their dogma, you have yours.
2, No amount of argument, no amount of discussion, no “logic”, etc. can or will settle whether a certain training method is useful or not, or is more effective or not.
That can only be determined by examining the results that the training method in question produces (there is, btw, a lot of evidence out there about training methods). If anyone believes their training methods are “superior” then they should be able to show the “superior” results (fighting skills) produced. If they can, then their view should be taken seriously; if they can’t, they are just blowing smoke.
Terence [/B]
1, Thanks for the speculation.
however, it will be appreciated to keep technical question technical. nothing more nothing less. please, we want to keep out of personal “mind reading” about others based one’s own thought.
2, the topic of discussion is ---- Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
please do not divert into other stuffs.
If the Dogma of the PIKACHU is about
1, bring up technical questions,
2, allow everyone to express thier view/reason on the topic,
3 searching and finding out what happen in every Localization Evolution.
then, let that be the Happy PIKACHU DOGMA.
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
[B]Is it a need of a different SLT and SNT set within a system?
if yes, why is it?
Isnt it SNT and SLT are just naming different due to the cantonese pronounciation confusion between NIM and Lim? [/B]
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
[B]1, Thanks for the speculation.
however, it will be appreciated to keep technical question technical. nothing more nothing less. please, we want to keep out of personal “mind reading” about others based one’s own thought.
2, the topic of discussion is ---- Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
please do not divert into other stuffs.
If the Dogma of the PIKACHU is about
1, bring up technical questions,
2, allow everyone to express thier view/reason on the topic,
3 searching and finding out what happen in every Localization Evolution.
then, let that be the Happy PIKACHU DOGMA. [/B]
Obviously you’ve just read parts of MKF, or you wouldn’t be posting all these rather transparent questions. If you don’t want your “mind read”, then perhaps you should start posting what you actually intend instead of these half-witted attempts at backhanded insults.
What you consider Dogma, others more accurately consider a futile obsession.
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Bring up technical questions??? As you already have your answers… all these posts of yours are just more examples of your bad breath.
-
Allow??? If this was true then you wouldn’t have the reactionary nature that spurns through the vast majority of your posts.
-
Yep, only you have the true WC right Hendikk?? Why don’t you tell us about your localized evolution??? You won’t will you, and that’s because you believe your White Crane Wing Chun is the true WC.
That’s fine… Believe what you want… but be honest about it. It’s due time you stop attacking others for things that you, yourself are guilty of.
Question?
Why are you so threatened that you are compelled to post over and over again these silly examples of your insecurity???
Answer.
Because the Pikachu is yellow.
Originally posted by duende
[B]Obviously you’ve just read parts of MKF, or you wouldn’t be posting all these rather transparent questions. If you don’t want your “mind read”, then perhaps you should start posting what you actually intend instead of these half-witted attempts at backhanded insults.
What you consider Dogma, others more accurately consider a futile obsession.
-
Bring up technical questions??? As you already have your answers… all these posts of yours are just more examples of your bad breath.
-
Allow??? If this was true then you wouldn’t have the reactionary nature that spurns through the vast majority of your posts.
-
Yep, only you have the true WC right Hendikk?? Why don’t you tell us about your localized evolution??? You won’t will you, and that’s because you believe your White Crane Wing Chun is the true WC.
That’s fine… Believe what you want… but be honest about it. It’s due time you stop attacking others for things that you, yourself are guilty of.
Question?
Why are you so threatened that you are compelled to post over and over again these silly examples of your insecurity???
Answer.
Because the Pikachu is yellow. [/B]
isnt it amazing that one thought such as
Leave the HFY guys alone. They have their dogma, you have yours.
based on one’s “thinker’s thought pattern” give raise to the post above?
what can we learn from this?
exactly as what the tolle said in his book power of Now or the Zen’s teaching.
When one mistaken the Thinker as oneself and take one’s speculating Thoughts as reality representing others, one then lives in one’s thought which has little todo with what in reality.
when mind move, thought is constructed. suffering starts if un aware of…
Thus one needs Siu Niem Tau or the little training to AWARE the mind has moved. So one doesnt keep thinking and take what one think is real, but can aware of one’s thinking is just a thought what one think, not more and not less.
Re: Re: Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
Originally posted by kj
Yes, I understand this is true when referring to the Little Idea set in the Cantonese dialect. Literati use the “n” sound, the common vernacular has more of an “l” sound.
I think I’ve posted this before, but I’ll do so once more.
The initial ‘N’ in ‘Nim’ is the ‘original’ Cantonese sound. However, there has been a linguistic trend which people call ‘lazy sounds’ where this initial ‘N’ is replaced by an ‘L’.
Other occurences include:
Nam/Lam - South (Nam Kuen = Southern Fist)
Nam/Lam - Male
Noi/Loi - Female
Neen/Leen - Year
(NOTE: Not very proper romanisation)
In HK and Guangdong this is a continuing trend, but I’m not aware that it started out as a means of distinguishing class/education.
From personal observation, HK villagers still tend to use the initial ‘N’, as well as overseas Chinese who emigrated before the 80-90’s. However, due to the ready availability of HK entertainment media in the overseas Chinese communities, more and more people are using the initial ‘L’.
CFT,
GREAT post!
Keep up the great job!
Thanks CFT- for the devlopment of the lazy sound etc and the
n-l variance.
Interestngly in the evolution of the language of the Dakotas(Sioux)-they do not have an alphabetical written language you have the variations of “D”, “N” and “L”…dakota, nakota, lakota…
with variations getting localised.
To: native southern chinese speakers— aren’t their variations in pronounciatins of the same word in foshanese, toishanese, hakka etc.
Tom may know- didnt Moy Yat speak more witha Toishanese accent? Different from Ip Man etc?
No hidden agenda- a real query!
Slight differences in pronounciation even with the same written language often is an indicator of location, geography, community and sometimes of class/status
Re: Re: Re: Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
Nice elaboration, CFT.
Originally posted by CFT
In HK and Guangdong this is a continuing trend, but I’m not aware that it started out as a means of distinguishing class/education.
I wasn’t implying that, and apologize if it appeared so. It was more an observation on trends and tendencies in use. The description of literati from a literati friend of mine with a special penchant for language and dialect. He himself adheres to the former and more formal “N” sound, and does not hesitate to correct me when I use the more common “L” sound or spelling. 
Regards,
- Kathy Jo
[B]What you consider Dogma, others more accurately consider a futile obsession.
- Yep, only you have the true WC right Hendikk?? Why don’t you tell us about your localized evolution??? You won’t will you, and that’s because you believe your White Crane Wing Chun is the true WC.
That’s fine… Believe what you want… but be honest about it. It’s due time you stop attacking others for things that you, yourself are guilty of.[/B]
“SIL NIM TAO”
Many search for SIL NIM TAO as we look for a hat we wear on our heads.
Hendrik too, it seems, has a fearful vision: waking up one morning and realizing that his SLT, so-called White Crane Wing Chun is gone, and worse, he doesn’t know Wing Chun has SNT, Chum Kiu and Biu Gee.
Consider what “missing white crane” might mean for Hendrik. No more SLT? or No more Wing Chun? or No more posts from Hendrik?
If the Dogma of the PIKACHU is about
1, bring up technical questions,
2, allow everyone to express thier view/reason on the topic,
3 searching and finding out what happen in every Localization Evolution.
then, let that be the Happy PIKACHU DOGMA.
Funny, I thought his dogma was about:
-
bring up technical questions and offer none of his original thoughts regarding what he brings up when asked to do so.
-
Gets frustrated by repeated requests to post on his own threads, to guide them, or to add to them.
-
Claim everyone is attacking him due to his lack of #2.
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State he’s leaving the forum for good due to the hostility here.
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Leave the forum for a week, then realize he can’t be complete without being online and participating in this forum, then resurrect himself under a new identity.
Steps 1-5 seem to be repeated every 6 months or so.
Originally posted by Rhat
[B]“SIL NIM TAO”
Many search for SIL NIM TAO as we look for a hat we wear on our heads.
Hendrik too, it seems, has a fearful vision: waking up one morning and realizing that his SLT, so-called White Crane Wing Chun is gone, and worse, he doesn’t know Wing Chun has SNT, Chum Kiu and Biu Gee.
Consider what “missing white crane” might mean for Hendrik. No more SLT? or No more Wing Chun? or No more posts from Hendrik? [/B]
You are welcome to start a new topic on
---- Consider what “missing white crane” might mean for Hendrik. No more SLT? or No more Wing Chun? or No more posts from Hendrik?
so that others will discuss. Why Not? Pikachu’s is very open minded.
Originally posted by Da_Moose
[B]Funny, I thought his dogma was about:
-
bring up technical questions and offer none of his original thoughts regarding what he brings up when asked to do so.
-
Gets frustrated by repeated requests to post on his own threads, to guide them, or to add to them.
-
Claim everyone is attacking him due to his lack of #2.
-
State he’s leaving the forum for good due to the hostility here.
-
Leave the forum for a week, then realize he can’t be complete without being online and participating in this forum, then resurrect himself under a new identity.
Steps 1-5 seem to be repeated every 6 months or so. [/B]
Great summarization of your Thoughts!
originally posted by Terence
If anyone believes their training methods are “superior” then they should be able to show the “superior” results (fighting skills) produced. If they can, then their view should be taken seriously; if they can’t, they are just blowing smoke.
Terence feel free to show off your superior methods and knowledge in a K-1 any time.
originally posted by hendik
Is it a need of a SLT and SNT set?
another example indicating that just because you have read something doesn’t necessarily mean you understand the material.
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
[B]You are welcome to start a new topic on
---- Consider what “missing white crane” might mean for Hendrik. No more SLT? or No more Wing Chun? or No more posts from Hendrik?
so that others will discuss. Why Not? Pikachu’s is very open minded. [/B]
“Pikachu’s is very open minded”???
“…and offer none of his original thoughts regarding what he brings up when asked to do so.”
Something to think about…
Originally posted by Rhat
[B]“Pikachu’s is very open minded”???
“…and offer none of his original thoughts regarding what he brings up when asked to do so.”
Something to think about… [/B]
you love to think, and think about others thoughts. Why not keep thinking.
as a friendly reminder,
you might want to start a new topic about your thinking and thoughts…etc instead of post them here , since your post is off topic.
it would be so much simplier if they were written in kanji.
i think they are the same kanji so, technically, they mean the samething. The Little Idea
now, Little fist training thats mandarin, its called Xiao Lian Tou in Peng style WC, Chum kiu is the same, Bil gee is called Biao Zhi. Personally, i think its all in the spelling.
Sil lum is also used to mean shaolin (young forrest, i see the connection from Ng Mei being from a shaolin temple)
honestly, its hard to tell without kanji.