I have seen a few different versions on the Iron Wire, but sequence wise, I noticed that there are at least 2 versions of the beginning sequence.
Now, after the salute, all the versions start off the same, fists at the side, come up and press out with the open hands, palms facing each other , then they close into fists and curl back and here is where I have seen 2 different sequences:
The more popular versions go into the 3 presses to the side with the hung ga distinct hand formation, the other version, Wing Lam’s, goes into the “down to the waist, out to the sides, open the hands” and then into the 3 presses.
Which in the popular versions happens AFTER the 3 side presses.
I am not sure if I quite understand what you’re describing, if you post a vid, it might be easier, but I will put forth this: In the beginning, you are bringing the hei from the middle dan tien down to the lower dan tien, sinking the hei and rooting to the earth, before bringing it out to the extremeties into the large heavenly cycle. I was taught several different versions, and of course, I am still learning and developing. This is the method that I follow at present.
many people have their own interpetations and there are many variations. If you do a search on youtube, you will see as many versions as there are snowflakes.
The Wire form is a very personal set. The more you practice it, the more things you feel internally, you will emphasize different things, the more it becomes soley your own. There is also what we call.signature moves, or “branding” which has become popular-especially with the advent of DVD’s and distance learning. People come out of the woodwork and claim all sorts of lineages, and teachers. This way, a Sifu can always tell if a person learned it from the DVD.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;851458]many people have their own interpetations and there are many variations. If you do a search on youtube, you will see as many versions as there are snowflakes.
The Wire form is a very personal set. The more you practice it, the more things you feel internally, you will emphasize different things, the more it becomes soley your own. There is also what we call.signature moves, or “branding” which has become popular-especially with the advent of DVD’s and distance learning. People come out of the woodwork and claim all sorts of lineages, and teachers. This way, a Sifu can always tell if a person learned it from the DVD.[/QUOTE]
Understood and I agree about the “personalization” part, which holds true to almost any form.
And I know that the sequences isn’t really that crucial, outside lineage claims of course.
While the forms I have seen have certain “typical” differences, ie: breathing, sounds and tension moves, the sequence of the beginning tends to be the same, execept for the Wing Lam version.
Just a curiosity thing on my part, not being a part of any lineage or claiming to be.
I don’t want to sound like I am making a statement over what is “correct” or “true”.
Diego,I met this gentleman when I was in HK.Ng sifu is second generation after wong fei hung..his teacher died 1991 and reached the age of 104 !
His teacher was a direkt student of WFH.
Ng Sifu only practises the 3 treasures of Hung Kuen,gung gee,fu hok and tit sin kuen.
He specialised on tit sin,hes 60 years old and hes strong as hell he gave me some very valuable pointers on my tit sin..without changing it…
Our tit sin is also different,actually its the purpose thats important and what u get out of the form…
[QUOTE=Laukarbo;851591]Diego,I met this gentleman when I was in HK.Ng sifu is second generation after wong fei hung..his teacher died 1991 and reached the age of 104 !
His teacher was a direkt student of WFH.
Ng Sifu only practises the 3 treasures of Hung Kuen,gung gee,fu hok and tit sin kuen.
He specialised on tit sin,hes 60 years old and hes strong as hell he gave me some very valuable pointers on my tit sin..without changing it…
Our tit sin is also different,actually its the purpose thats important and what u get out of the form…[/QUOTE]
Awesome:) If someone from another style wanted to learn the Iron Wire set of Hung Ga but wasn’t too interested in spending ten years to learn Hung Ga Fighting technique, would it be realistic to master the Iron Wire?. I’ve been a smoker for a long time and would like to find that one chi gung that I could practise into old age…have you heard of any old timers taking up the Iron Wire without fight training?.
[QUOTE=diego;851710]Awesome:) If someone from another style wanted to learn the Iron Wire set of Hung Ga but wasn’t too interested in spending ten years to learn Hung Ga Fighting technique, would it be realistic to master the Iron Wire?. I’ve been a smoker for a long time and would like to find that one chi gung that I could practise into old age…have you heard of any old timers taking up the Iron Wire without fight training?.
How was HK?.[/QUOTE]
There’s only about 953.48 videos on Iron Wire available. Iron Wire as a conditioning and chi gung, I can’t think of anyone that it wouldn’t be beneficial for…although I do know of one guy, luckily I wasn’t in the ER at the time, but he had a vagal response on the crapper and went into cardiac arrest…so if your heart is good then ok, just don’t strain and **** the **** of doom
I haven’t really seen any of the vids available for it though to speak on the quality of production.
And if you don’t want to go that route you can always try looking for a Hung Gar school and checking out when they may be having a seminar. Even if you just learn it from a vid and then go refine it with a seminar or two. Again yeah its a vid…but in all honesty its the age of technology and…fighter pilots learn crap from vids so yeah…just make sure after you learn it you get the real details from somebody..that’s my take.
Honestly its got the chi gung factor that makes it all mystical but its not that advanced…none of those things really are, at least not like say IP. The hung gar school I learn from teaches it pretty early on after gung gee. Sifu said he’d rather teach it early so students would be conditioned well enough for tiger crane and 5 animal/elements and of course fighting. If it wasn’t for gung gee being so “foundational” (is that a word) then he’d probably teach it right after Lau gar.
This type of training isn’t unique…I know 2 other chi gungs that are similar in nature. Though iron wire does have the super patented hung gar, wong fei hung I AM A TIGER coolness:cool: Just be sure you wear black when you do it…and feiyue…
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;851775]There’s only about 953.48 videos on Iron Wire available. Iron Wire as a conditioning and chi gung, I can’t think of anyone that it wouldn’t be beneficial for…although I do know of one guy, luckily I wasn’t in the ER at the time, but he had a vagal response on the crapper and went into cardiac arrest…so if your heart is good then ok, just don’t strain and **** the **** of doom
I haven’t really seen any of the vids available for it though to speak on the quality of production.
And if you don’t want to go that route you can always try looking for a Hung Gar school and checking out when they may be having a seminar. Even if you just learn it from a vid and then go refine it with a seminar or two. Again yeah its a vid…but in all honesty its the age of technology and…fighter pilots learn crap from vids so yeah…just make sure after you learn it you get the real details from somebody..that’s my take.
Honestly its got the chi gung factor that makes it all mystical but its not that advanced…none of those things really are, at least not like say IP. The hung gar school I learn from teaches it pretty early on after gung gee. Sifu said he’d rather teach it early so students would be conditioned well enough for tiger crane and 5 animal/elements and of course fighting. If it wasn’t for gung gee being so “foundational” (is that a word) then he’d probably teach it right after Lau gar.
This type of training isn’t unique…I know 2 other chi gungs that are similar in nature. Though iron wire does have the super patented hung gar, wong fei hung I AM A TIGER coolness:cool: Just be sure you wear black when you do it…and feiyue…[/QUOTE]
I am going to respectfully disagree with almost all of this post. To each their own though.
Iron thread can be taught to non-hung gar practicioner allright..even non-martial artists.Also even if u learn it by yourself it wont harm you but u might just waste ur time and get nothing out of it so under guidance is what i recommend.
HK was good as ever…hehe and i found out that we have dried ****roaches in our dit dar..well it looked like it:D
[QUOTE=Laukarbo;851858]Diego,to answer ur question
Iron thread can be taught to non-hung gar practicioner allright..even non-martial artists.Also even if u learn it by yourself it wont harm you but u might just waste ur time and get nothing out of it so under guidance is what i recommend.
HK was good as ever…hehe and i found out that we have dried ****roaches in our dit dar..well it looked like it:D[/QUOTE]
eww, I lived in a place with ****roaches once when I was Vegetarian…I found half a roach in my Mashed Potatoes…I don’t like killing animals but after that I have no problem stomping on slugs:D
Isometric/Isotonic tension and regulated breathing develops the lik and the jin which takes all that previous training and further solidifies the strength and endurance in the practitioner.
performance of Iron thread is arduous and is long and tiring early in training when done properly.
Old players always have some good advice to share.
in my opinion, results are evident from practice of this set inside of 90 days, but real fruition is something that continues throughout all the time you spend practicing. Its a great set in any iteration when done with mindfulness.
while it may be basic in appearance, there is a lot at play and it’s what’s under the surface that is very very important for the kungfu development.
This is indeed in my opinion one of the more advanced concepts in sil lum martial arts. It is not wrong to learn it at any time, but it is important to approach it with the correct intention in place.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;851868]Isometric/Isotonic tension and regulated breathing develops the lik and the jin which takes all that previous training and further solidifies the strength and endurance in the practitioner.
performance of Iron thread is arduous and is long and tiring early in training when done properly.
Old players always have some good advice to share.
in my opinion, results are evident from practice of this set inside of 90 days, but real fruition is something that continues throughout all the time you spend practicing. Its a great set in any iteration when done with mindfulness.
while it may be basic in appearance, there is a lot at play and it’s what’s under the surface that is very very important for the kungfu development.
This is indeed in my opinion one of the more advanced concepts in sil lum martial arts. It is not wrong to learn it at any time, but it is important to approach it with the correct intention in place.[/QUOTE]
Isokinetic is the term I believe - Constant tension through the full range of motion.
I’m going to agree with most of the points brought up by David Jamieson. It’s a great chi gung. My only qualm is with the double standard that goes with these types of things. The thing is this type of training is not unique to TCMA, its not even unique to MA in general.
I don’t think anybody here ever had the idea that there wasn’t more going on underneath the surface. I didn’t think that needed to be said, if that was the impression I gave then that’s my bad. But you know what, the same can be said for weight lifting…and supplementation…and medicine…and dieting…
And I don’t think we need to have this so closed, apprehensive mentality towards these things anymore. We live in an age of information and self education. Heck if you can learn to be a nurse or an engineer online then you can learn a chi gung from a video. Its just in searching for quality of production and seeking adequate hands-on experience to follow-up (like say a nurse internship). And nobody says anything to a guy that regulates his dietary intake and supplementation while maintaining above average exercise loads…why is this different? I’d say there’s more at stake internally from screwing up in the “mainstream” fitness practices than in a chi gung.
Although for the sake of compromise, I will say this. That while I do think Iron Wire is more balanced than some of the other chi gung of this type I have done, its should be said that anyone doing this stuff should maintain a balance in their training. I had one experiece where I was gung ho about my “external” chi gung, and I neglected practicing my taiji and doing the wuji and such things to balance my training. I noticed that my skin became very dry and red, and more than that I became very “fire” in my emotional state. Very irritable and such.
But just like somebody that notices they are having an adverse reaction to a medicine I acknowledged the condition and made the correction. Not too much of a big deal really…
Its just funny we can be our own personal chemist but we can’t be voodoo doctors…
And look at it this way, you got a boat load of experienced minds to pick on these types of things and getting pointers right here…like David Jamieson…so again why all the apprehension…just be educated about it
To me, IW was a natural progression from Sanchin Training and was lucky enough to know people wiling to share it and the DVD’s are ok, some better than others, for “reference material”.
