Iron Wire was meant to be an internal set. Does anyone here practice Iron Wire and do they feel any internal sensations? I was reading a bit of Lam Sai Wing’s book on Iron Wire and he talks about using your intent to lead the chi to different areas during the set…
I’ve used fence wire to do forms I already was doing.
It felt nice after. And much freer movement ease.
The point of doing Iron Wire is to tense various parts of the body using various postures and breathing techniques.
When it’s done properly, you develop the ability to give and take hits.
What do I feel after doing this kind of thing? Tired immediately afterwards, stronger later.
I’m gonna have to disagree with you Huang. Iron Wire is basically none of the things you described. To say that it is just tensing muscles is actually quite rudimentary and basic.
Iron Wire teaches you to control and direct the flow of chi that leads to proper faht ging. It IS NOT isometric exercise. The locking and releasing of the chi flow thru the meridians is aided by the differing bridging principles.
The goal of Iron Wire is not the same as iron body gung. The goal is to understand , cultivate, and utilize internal methods in combat.
Peace
P.S.- If you dont mind Huang, where did you learn your Iron Wire? I dont recall you saying where you picked up your Gar.
Originally posted by illusionfist
[B]I’m gonna have to disagree with you Huang. Iron Wire is basically none of the things you described. To say that it is just tensing muscles is actually quite rudimentary and basic.
Iron Wire teaches you to control and direct the flow of chi that leads to proper faht ging. It IS NOT isometric exercise. The locking and releasing of the chi flow thru the meridians is aided by the differing bridging principles.
The goal of Iron Wire is not the same as iron body gung. The goal is to understand , cultivate, and utilize internal methods in combat.
Peace
P.S.- If you dont mind Huang, where did you learn your Iron Wire? I dont recall you saying where you picked up your Gar. [/B]
Huang is an expert on all CMA didn’t you know?
Oh come on guys, it’s not JUST CMA he’s an expert on, it’s EVERYTHING. From CMA to JMA, to MMA, to movies, and music, and everything else that makes the world go round!!! HE KNOWS ALL!
~Wen~
Get your quotes straight, illusionfist.
I never said that it was “just tensing muscles”.
I also mentioned breathing techniques and giving/taking hits.
So if you aren’t tensing your muscles and doing breath control, how are you accomplishing the dynamic tension of Hung Ga?
In the school (Tang Fung, Yee Chee Wai lineage) I studied, dynamic tension was integral in the form. That involved tensing muscles and breath control, as far as doing the form for COMBATIVE usage goes.
“The locking and releasing of the chi flow thru the meridians is aided by the differing bridging principles.” How do you propose this be accomplished, then?
Without tensing the muscles in the prescribed way, not even a Jedi Mind Trick performed on the Iron Wire Set will keep you on your feet after taking a hard hit.
And that’s the way it is in not just Hung Ga, but a whole lot of other kung fu styles that are actually used for FIGHTING.
So are you saying you learned Iron Wire or dynamic tension from the Yee’s?
Well, i just happened to speak with Dixon Fung and he said that there is nobody under your name (obviously your real name that you’ve revealed on the boards before) that has received iron wire transmissions from them.
Please dont take this as a personal attack. I just happened to talk to him about it (since the Yee’s were brought up). The people that have actively received Iron Wire transmissions (and not just the form) are still a part of the Yee’s Association and they are still learning its various intricacies. Any members from the Yee’s that have recieved full training have their name put into a record book for documentation (all said by Dixon Fung himself).
If anyone has any questions on an instructor, they can email Dixon personally or get in contact with him thru PM at the www.hungkuen.net forum (screen name is DF).
Originally posted by HuangKaiVun
[B]Get your quotes straight, illusionfist.
I never said that it was “just tensing muscles”.
I also mentioned breathing techniques and giving/taking hits.
So if you aren’t tensing your muscles and doing breath control, how are you accomplishing the dynamic tension of Hung Ga?
In the school (Tang Fung, Yee Chee Wai lineage) I studied, dynamic tension was integral in the form. That involved tensing muscles and breath control, as far as doing the form for COMBATIVE usage goes.
“The locking and releasing of the chi flow thru the meridians is aided by the differing bridging principles.” How do you propose this be accomplished, then?
Without tensing the muscles in the prescribed way, not even a Jedi Mind Trick performed on the Iron Wire Set will keep you on your feet after taking a hard hit.
And that’s the way it is in not just Hung Ga, but a whole lot of other kung fu styles that are actually used for FIGHTING. [/B]
There is so much more to dynamic tension forms than tensing your muscles.
No $hit, Sherlock.
“I also mentioned breathing techniques and giving/taking hits.”
I wrote that, not you.
READ.
I’m not Dixon Fung’s student.
Not that it matters.
If you do Iron Wire and don’t even bother to contract your muscles, it won’t mean squat in a real fight against somebody who DOES.
Try it. You’ll see.
HuangKaiVun
Calm down, Illusionfist is not being at all rude to you and your responding with insults.
You have not stated your teacher and only stated a part of your linage. I can understand you not wanting to name your teacher directly but if your going to insult other peoples opinions you can expect them to call yours up for scrutiny.
I also think your taking Illusionfists points in compleatley the wrong light. He only posted in the first place to say there was more to Tit Sing than simply dynamic tension. If you dont hold his view point then how about giving us some explanations as to why.
I for example would be very interested in just how flexing your muscles is akin to iron body training. If this is the case why not simply lift wieghts and use regular medition instead of the particular breathing techniques?
I never saw much of iron wire but what i did see seemed to have a lot to do with intent and breath control.
I have always been taught that good Hung Ga including so called "dynamic tension’ is not stressed tension. Just like all good arts there an interplay between Yin and Yang and the skill in ‘dynamic tension’ comes in the word ‘dynamic’. To be able to transform soft to hard and back again. Ive often been told that the higher levels teach a student to ‘explode’ the various energys within there bodys.
I dont mean to pigion hole you as im sure your not trying to say that Iron Wire is all about having tence muscles and laboured breathing but still this is an internal set and as such it should hold true to some internal pricipals.
Anyway its an interesting topic, i wish i had some solid information to add but this set was always somewhat elusive. I only ever saw parts of it.
I didn’t say that you were one of Dixon Fung’s students. By bringing him up, its implied what his position is as Dai Sihing and therefore knowledgeable of who is who within their org. Being as that you dropped the Yee’s name, i figured you would have known that. There is no need to drop a name to bring legitimacy to a statement if said teachings didn’t come from that line.
I did read. You said the POINT of iron wire is tensing muscles, as well as breath control and giving and taking hits. Yes breath control is in there, but where are you getting this giving and taking hits stuff? There is no pai da element to iron wire whatsoever. Once again i’ll reiterate, the focus of iron wire is NOT the same as iron body gung. Muscle contraction is only one aspect of this form, and at higher levels the interplay of gung and yau ging are tantamount over basic muscular functions.
If you’ve actually received iron wire transmissions, than we can continue to debate on this. If you haven’t (which in all honesty i personally feel you haven’t, based from your statements), than i feel compelled to correct certain statements so that others who read may know what iron wire IS and is NOT.
Peace
Hey, illusionfist, did you learn the iron wire recently? Congrats. 
Nah, i went modern and just decided to learn it from a video… :eek:
Originally posted by illusionfist
Nah, i went modern and just decided to learn it from a video… :eek:
May I inquire which video did you choose?
WLE?
May I also inquire why did you choose this particular video (good presentation, comprehensive, etc, etc). Of course, if you are joking then ignore my questions.
Thanks
wm
Dont you hate how sarcasm never conveys over the internet? I was TOTALLY joking about that. Video Fu represents all that is unholy and wrong, haha. I still prefer the “ancient” ways of learning from a real life sifu, hehe;)
Good to hear you learned tiet sin the old fashioned way.
:eek:
You guys probably have ran into this before but I’ll post it for people that haven’t read it.
This is from YC Wong’s website at www.tigercrane.com on Iron Wire:
IRON WIRE
This form is the highest set taught in the Hung Gar system. It takes the practitioner into the realm of internal Kung Fu training, which is the ultimate goal in Chinese martial arts. Tid Sin’s limited footwork is based solely upon the movements and spirit of the Dragon coupled with vibrating sounds and various intonations of breath control with twisting movements which stimulate the internal organs. Each emotion (Happiness, Anger, Sadness, Sorrow and Fear) is said to be translated into a breathing tone producing different vibrations, which affect different organs. From the breathing sounds comes a strong type of power, which is emitted from within the practitioner. There are twelve types of training methods contained in this form. They are Hard, Soft, Lineal, Isometric Contractions, Linking, Dividing, Supporting, Stationary, Circular Transition, Determination, Exactness and Immobilization. These twelve types of training are designed to control and improve the internal functions of the organs. It is a dynamic tension exercise used to increase the flow of Chi throughout the body. It is an efficient means of body building and stamina development.