Just read Mr. Dugas’ article on “Iron Palm for MMA” in the latest KFQ rag, and while it is a really good article on Iron Palm, I have a couple questions:
-Not sure what it has to do with MMA? You mention MMA in the opening paragraph, then the closing paragraph. Nothing in between. So I am not sure why the title reflects a focus on MMA?
Why not shop this to one of the MMA rags?
I know you do not fight MMA, but do you have any students who have tried this training?
Devils advocate question: if iron palm training really made people strike harder, why is it we do not hear about any fighters training this method?
[QUOTE=Three Harmonies;851947]Just read Mr. Dugas’ article on “Iron Palm for MMA” in the latest KFQ rag, and while it is a really good article on Iron Palm, I have a couple questions:
-Not sure what it has to do with MMA? You mention MMA in the opening paragraph, then the closing paragraph. Nothing in between. So I am not sure why the title reflects a focus on MMA?
Why not shop this to one of the MMA rags?
I know you do not fight MMA, but do you have any students who have tried this training?
Devils advocate question: if iron palm training really made people strike harder, why is it we do not hear about any fighters training this method?
Thanks
Jake [/QUOTE]
One of the reasons I started IP was how much sense it made for HNB with Bare hands sans gloves.
Last MMA match had MMA gloves, that was a couple of years ago, why?[/QUOTE]
When did you start Iron Palm? You said “One of the reasons I started IP was how much sense it made for HNB with Bare hands sans gloves” so I’m just trying to get some perspective. Were you doing Iron Palm before 1999?
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;851972]When did you start Iron Palm? You said “One of the reasons I started IP was how much sense it made for HNB with Bare hands sans gloves” so I’m just trying to get some perspective. Were you doing Iron Palm before 1999?[/QUOTE]
Nope, only been doing it for the last 2 years, I started IP based on what I learned while doing NHB.
Never had a chance to apply it in competition, perhaps in the future, but I doubt it.
I was doing “typical” Karate conditoning and only had some minor bruises but I noticed that the open hand was ideal for GnP from the top position.
The issue is just arriving on the newsstands now. We hope to have the table of contents posted in our magazine section by the end of the day (but if you haven’t noticed, we’ve been having server problems all week time to get a new server…)
I’m sure Dale will chime in on this as soon as he sees it.
As for MMA people training Iron Palm, I know Grandmaster Alex Tao coached at Cung Le's school for a very short period some years ago. It was short lived however - I think the language barrier made them part ways.
I don’t think that many MMA fighters would opt for a 2 year long program for IP, sport combat tends to look for the quickest routes to combat effectiveness and IP, while effective, is a long road.
I think that someone with IP going into MMA has an advantage in the striking game, I don’t see someone already in MMA training devoting the time needed for IP.
If it was already part of a curriculum from the beginning, possibly.
Jake it seems like KFM is trying to include the MMA into their magazine. Have you seen their new t-shirt line.
While the article contained the standard information on Iron Palm and its beginner training routine it would have been better to of demonstrated just how it would be useful.
Example like to show some palm techniques utilizing MMA hand gear etc.
The only broken hands I’ve heard and seen in MMA/NHB was when a punch was thrown. Palm techniques seem to be very rare except in the clinch or guard.
Perhaps a focus on IRON FIST training would have been a better topic
what would be interesting to do is to set up a study of 2 groups of MMA guys - one group does IP according to a standardized method (as much as is possible), the other doesn’t; then compare them after a few years to see if the incidence of hand injuries was similar (they would all have to engage in bare knuckle fights at a similar frequency), and also if any of the IP groups opponents spontaneously coughed up their spleen a day or two after the fight…
of course, I am being a bit facetious, but my point is this: without any reliable way of gathering relatively objective evidence that supports taking extra time to train IP (which is time away from training other things), not to mention the extra cost involved (instruction, materials, herbs), I am hard pressed to substantiate why it would be favorable in an MMA context over other methods of hand conditioning, such as hitting a heavy bag or whatnot
I am not suggesting IP training doesn’t actually have actual physiological effects (e.g. - increased blood flow, decreased pain threshold, increased bone / soft tissue density - nothing that doesn’t jive with Wolff’s Law regarding the behavior of tissue put under increased loading requirements, BTW), just whether or not it makes sense to apply to MMA
[QUOTE=Dale Dugas;852170]Why wrap your hands when you can hit people and break em?
Thats what a student told me.
.[/QUOTE]
well, it is intriguing in one respect: it is arguable that most people who train IP don’t have much opportunity to “use it” on a regular basis in the sense that an MMA guy would regularly have opportunities to hit people as hard as possible; in that respect, one could, instead of the old double-blind randomized schtick described above, anecdotally get fighter’s feedback re: if they felt any difference in what it was like to hit people before and after doing IP training (anecdotal studies have significant validity as long as they are not taken for more than what they are) and if they found that they were doing more damage on their strikes vis a vis opponent response (or lack thereof, LOL)
[QUOTE=Dale Dugas;852170]Made sense to him to train this as its not only hand training but learning to connect better and passively train relaxation.[/QUOTE]
ok, but admittedly the connection / relaxation bit could be practiced in other contexts as well - what it demonstrates is that IP is, obviously, not going to “work” if you have a hand that’s rock hard but a body that can’t deliver it to its target and generate enough force at the same time - pretty much the same as any other effective method of striking, really; the only thing is, one would arguably want to consider how to segue the “traditional” exercises against inanimate objects to becoming functional in a sparring situation, since the context of delivery, and hence the biomechanics, are different
anyway, it would be interesting to hear about your student’s experiences - if indeed it did confer an advantage, it would be wild to see MMA guys doing IP training as part of their overall routine…
Ngok-
Well I intended this thread to be aimed at Dale, the author, but now that you mention it, yes Gene seems to be trying to tie together MMA and CMA as much as possible this last year of issues or so. Nothing wrong with that IMO (though we need more MMA coverage like we need a hole in our heads! Have you seen how many rags cover MMA!?!?:eek:). But I was disappointed at the end result of the article where little, to nothing in it had anything to do with MMA. Not sure if the title was Dale’s decision, or Gene’s though.
Again, not **** talking Dale, I have mad respect, as I thought it was an excellent Iron Palm article. As a fellow writer, artist, and junior to Dale I posed a question. He answered, and I appreciate it.
Good conversation guys,
Jake
time to get a new server…)