[QUOTE=boxerbilly;1280312]My main back ground is boxing. Kind of hard to train myself out of it and I don’t think I would want to anyway. So, at least in that respect, I do have solid grounding in understanding technique and application. I don’t see any reasons why one could not include IP with that background.[/QUOTE]
Your boxing would be an excellent compliment to IP training. Your knuckles are probably really well conditioned. IP training could toughen the back and palmar surfaces of the hand.
[QUOTE=bawang;1281277]you can learn any kung fu exercise through books and video, but you will not be able to teach others.[/QUOTE]
That’s like saying you can go read books on strength training and diet, get all strong, but you can’t teach anyone how you accomplished that. Preposterous. Iron Palm is one of the easiest things to gain self feedback on. Do your hands throb? (Yes/No); Can you break? (Yes/No); Is your breaking improving? (Yes/No)
IP is practically written for the DIY martial artist. The only thing hanging people up is superstitious bull****.
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;1281279]That’s like saying you can go read books on strength training and diet, get all strong, but you can’t teach anyone how you accomplished that. Preposterous. Iron Palm is one of the easiest things to gain self feedback on. Do your hands throb? (Yes/No); Can you break? (Yes/No); Is your breaking improving? (Yes/No)
IP is practically written for the DIY martial artist. The only thing hanging people up is superstitious bull****.[/QUOTE]
you cant teach others because ur gonna get found out and embarrased FOO
if u learned from a book why should a person pay u to learn from u, they can learn from the book too
[QUOTE=bawang;1281290]you cant teach others because ur gonna get found out and embarrased FOO[/QUOTE]
Results matter more than anything else. Demonstrate your skill and it doesn’t matter where you learned. My 2nd BJJ coach learned from a book. He also produced pro MMA fighters and amateur MMA champions. The rest is irrelevant.
if u learned from a book why should a person pay u to learn from u, they can learn from the book too
Indeed they can, and should. No sense in wasting time with useless “teachers”. A few dedicated sparring partners are far more useful than any sifu, unless that sifu happens to be one of those partners. There’s nothing you can’t learn from a book these days. The issue is getting with someone and physically working out the flaws. A coach can speed the process, but they’re hardly necessary. And given the sucktitude of most kung fu teachers…better off without them.
[QUOTE=Keith76;1279598]Moderate/minor skin abrasions and bruises. Is it best to temporarily stop training until the injuries heal?
Thanks[/QUOTE]
I did iron palm about 25 years ago. Still have it. I only did it on the right hand and even today all those years later my right hand is much tougher than my left. I didn’t have any dit da jow back then as it was only available from a few places on each coast and it was expensive for a teenie with no job. I used rubbing alcohol instead. Worked for me with the bruising and inflamation also.
Let me ask you this. Do you believe one could learn iron palm , safely and correctly through video?[/QUOTE]
Sorry, for the delayed response. I rarely visit here anymore.
Yes, I think the basic physical aspects of iron palm can be learned from a video or book. Rodney Morgan is one of the most skilled iron palm practitioners I have ever met. He would be a great source of information.
Bawang,
Ohio has many iron palm practitioners. Kung Fu is very prevalent in Ohio. We have Hung Gar, Choy Li Fut, Wing Chun, Shuai Jiao, Baguazhang, Bajiquan, Hsing-I, Northern Shaolin, Houquan and several styles of Tanglangquan and Taijiquan within an hour drive of my location. Most of us teaching here have been training for at least three or four decades.
[QUOTE=boxerbilly;1280261]Sanjuro, do you follow Chicoines IP methods? If so, did you train with him, or one of his students? Or , through his IP video?[/QUOTE]
Chicoine originally learned iron palm from Feeman Ong. His methods are just typical iron palm training. He was good, but I believe the members of the Iron Palm Society are better. They don’t use half blocks or spacers.
Here is a video of Shane from the Iron Lotus Society breaking full size blocks without spacers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2UwxAcIWzg BTW, I was there and checked their blocks, without their knowledge, before the seminar to make sure they were not gimmicked. There guys are the real deal.
Richard, Thanks. I have seen both videos. The IPS guys are very impressive.
I have a old VHS of Green Dragons Stone Warrior. Quality not the best anymore. But, he shows his 3 ladies doing breaks in the beginning. Those girls are about the most impressive breakers I have ever seen. No spacers. I think up to 3 inch thick individual blocks. I forget the largest amount broke but it was between 7-9 inches. Margie Smith , I think may have been the only person from Green Dragon to ever not use the herbs internal or external during training for IP or other stuff. She had allergic reactions to them. So even though Allen was and maybe is steadfast in that of all the programs one must use Jow for IP, it appears he allowed Margie to do it without. He mentions that IP is the only program herbs are necessary at the end of the SW video discussion.
I have a video with Allen himself doing impressive breaking. Looked like 4 inch blocks. I forget how many. No spacers. I read he did not allow spacers. Considers it cheating.
[QUOTE=boxerbilly;1281464]Richard, Thanks. I have seen both videos. The IPS guys are very impressive.
I have a old VHS of Green Dragons Stone Warrior. Quality not the best anymore. But, he shows his 3 ladies doing breaks in the beginning. Those girls are about the most impressive breakers I have ever seen. No spacers. I think up to 3 inch thick individual blocks. I forget the largest amount broke but it was between 7-9 inches. Margie Smith , I think may have been the only person from Green Dragon to ever not use the herbs internal or external during training for IP or other stuff. She had allergic reactions to them. So even though Allen was and maybe is steadfast in that of all the programs one must use Jow for IP, it appears he allowed Margie to do it without. He mentions that IP is the only program herbs are necessary at the end of the SW video discussion.
I have a video with Allen himself doing impressive breaking. Looked like 4 inch blocks. I forget how many. No spacers. I read he did not allow spacers. Considers it cheating.[/QUOTE]
I have heard of some of the iron palm internal wines. After I had bought materials from the ILS, they released more material. On certain web sites one of them said he attributed his gains to a specific jow and a specific wine. I’ve also heard some of the ingredients are the same and even some jows can be drunk as well as put on the limbs. Where are there sources for internal, iron palm wines?
I really could not help you with what to take or how to train. I know Dale Dugas sells herbs for IP. I do not believe they are meant to be drunk. But a quick google search returned this:http://www.ditdajow.com/internalformulas.php
I can’t vouch for that link or what they sell.
From what I have seen you’ll spend 50-100 bucks for enough herbs to make a gallon of external wine. Seems pretty fair price really. I would imagine a gallon would last awhile. Main issue is, even if you know what to do. Gather the herbs and make you wine, which may take a month to a couple of months before the wine can be used for good effect. Do you have the dedication to follow it everyday for the required time to reap results? Really, it is a life time thing but from what Ive read it takes about a 100 days on average to manifest real results. That’s the thing. 100 days every day. maybe more than once a day depending on who you follow. Otherwise better to not begin.
There are guys with way more accurate answers than I could ever give you. They may or may not add. And it seems sometimes you wait a bit before you get a reply. Life gets in the way or they just don’t see it or care until they do.
[QUOTE=boxerbilly;1281623]I really could not help you with what to take or how to train. I know Dale Dugas sells herbs for IP. I do not believe they are meant to be drunk. But a quick google search returned this:http://www.ditdajow.com/internalformulas.php
I can’t vouch for that link or what they sell.
From what I have seen you’ll spend 50-100 bucks for enough herbs to make a gallon of external wine. Seems pretty fair price really. I would imagine a gallon would last awhile. Main issue is, even if you know what to do. Gather the herbs and make you wine, which may take a month to a couple of months before the wine can be used for good effect. Do you have the dedication to follow it everyday for the required time to reap results? Really, it is a life time thing but from what Ive read it takes about a 100 days on average to manifest real results. That’s the thing. 100 days every day. maybe more than once a day depending on who you follow. Otherwise better to not begin.
There are guys with way more accurate answers than I could ever give you. They may or may not add. And it seems sometimes you wait a bit before you get a reply. Life gets in the way or they just don’t see it or care until they do.[/QUOTE]
When I began this type of training we used Dit Da Jow made by our teacher ( Ark Wong) before and after training. In the beginning the hands bleed , the Jow helps heal it. The Jow Sifu made was designed to clot and disinfect open cuts. Daily training in the beginning does more harm than good.
Dale is a one of the best sources available today for answers to this subject.
[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1281460]Chicoine originally learned iron palm from Feeman Ong. His methods are just typical iron palm training. He was good, but I believe the members of the Iron Palm Society are better. They don’t use half blocks or spacers.
Here is a video of Shane from the Iron Lotus Society breaking full size blocks without spacers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2UwxAcIWzg BTW, I was there and checked their blocks, without their knowledge, before the seminar to make sure they were not gimmicked. There guys are the real deal.[/QUOTE] Looks like Shane from the Iron Lotus Society has a huge space underneath that block.
[QUOTE=Charles S;1281622]I have heard of some of the iron palm internal wines. After I had bought materials from the ILS, they released more material. On certain web sites one of them said he attributed his gains to a specific jow and a specific wine. I’ve also heard some of the ingredients are the same and even some jows can be drunk as well as put on the limbs. Where are there sources for internal, iron palm wines?[/QUOTE]
If you have ILS books or dvd’s, then you also should have at least a few recipe listings. Also there’s the plum dragon site that lists some recipes and I has most ILS stuff. You could probably just email them and get a rundown. Or just email the Morgans (ILS) directly if its one of their recipes. Don’t expect anyone to give the a recipe for free, but at least you’ll find out where you can find it.
Frankly, there’s nothing mystical about any of this. Chemicals have pharmacological effects, many of which you can reference online. Anyone telling you of secret formulas and all that mess are full of it. Don’t buy anything to put in your body (or really, on your body for that matter) from anyone not willing to tell you exactly what is in it and how much. Frankly, I think its unethical to sell that way and should be regulated, but that’s just me.
Looks like Shane from the Iron Lotus Society has a huge space underneath that block.