Who’s Lee Shing when he’s at home??
Now now Graham 
Don’t go starting trouble now 
It’s a pretty good thread so far…
BUT I would actually prefer to know more about what Ip Man WROTE DOWN!
I’ve seen some scribbles in the Ip Man Tong, but it would be really cool for his family to releare more of his personal training notes and posssibly even the curriculum that he passed his trainees (wishful thinking I know!)
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1094275]Also, I still find it so interesting that NOBODY ever mentions Lee Shing (maybe because you all know I will!!) and he was very close to Ip Man, Jiu Wan, Lok Yiu AND Ho Kam Ming.[/QUOTE]Yep, you don’t disappoint us Spencer. Also not much literature or stories, or people promoting him other than you. Don’t think there is anyone other than you from LS family posting?
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1094290]BUT I would actually prefer to know more about what Ip Man WROTE DOWN![/QUOTE]I’d have to dig my copy of ‘The Prodigal Son’ out, but I’m pretty sure Guy Lai (in the dvd extras) said that Jiu Wan had a book (kuen po) from Yip Man. Or maybe it was written by JW. I forget which.
[QUOTE=CFT;1094299]Yep, you don’t disappoint us Spencer. Also not much literature or stories, or people promoting him other than you. Don’t think there is anyone other than you from LS family posting?[/QUOTE]
You are correct Chee. I am trying to help the family, but I don’t have a school or anything as you know. My Sifu still promotes himself, as does Austin Goh and Joe Lee. I’m just a Journeyman looking to exchange with like minded folks 
[QUOTE=CFT;1094299]I’d have to dig my copy of ‘The Prodigal Son’ out, but I’m pretty sure Guy Lai (in the dvd extras) said that Jiu Wan had a book (kuen po) from Yip Man. Or maybe it was written by JW. I forget which.[/QUOTE]
It would make sense if Jiu Wan had something. Exactly what may forever remain a mystery. No matter how much I try to promote this sort of exchange I get nothing more than whats posted online already, and believe me when I say that isn’t what I’m talking about…
Be nice guys and stay on topic please.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1094322]Be nice guys and stay on topic please.[/QUOTE]
Okay Sanjuro, let’s try…
Apparently, not only did Ip Man defy the Japanese Empire, what he said was “Yong Chun, Yi Wen!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AJxXQ7xojE
And that’s the truth! :eek:
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1094290]Now now Graham Don’t go starting trouble now [/QUOTE]
Oh! why??
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1094275]Also, I still find it so interesting that NOBODY ever mentions Lee Shing (maybe because you all know I will!!) and he was very close to Ip Man, Jiu Wan, Lok Yiu AND Ho Kam Ming.
[/QUOTE]
Question for you. Why is Lee Shing listed under the Gulao (Koo Loo) branch of Wing Chun from Leung Jan as opposed to Ip Man’s lineage?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branches_of_Wing_Chun
Do you guys do Pien San (side body)?
Also, I still find it so interesting that NOBODY ever mentions Lee Shing
Why so interesting? You’re the only one posting that has had anything to do with him, so what were you expecting?
Should not be too surprising that not too many people write about Lee Shing. Or, for that matter, not too many people know of or heard of a LOT of the other Yip Man students, the majority of whom if not deceased probably live in Hong Kong and most likely not involved with WC at all, or only involved privately, etc. The typical ones people hear of on these forums, WSL, Leung Ting, Lok Yiu, Moy Yat, etc., have roots here in the US. They also have international branches outside of Hong Kong and worldwide (just look at Leung Ting’s organization in the US and Europe as an example). And the more students outside of Hong Kong/China that are part of an organization, the likelier that organization and its chief instructor (WSL, etc.) will be heard of because of postings on forums like this one. Not too many Chinese in Hong Kong/mainland China will come and post on these forums. Which is the primary reason why you mainly see postings from students under those of Yip Man’s students who have overseas schools or organizations. And hence the same names appear over and over again.
Alan Lamb was probably the first British wing chun sifu. He knew Lee Shing and learned from him. He worked out more with Lee Shing’s protege Joseph Cheng ( they(Cheng etc) stood somewhat side bodied) What really happened to Cheng?- we just have stories.I have somewhere Cheng’s book and the dummy pics.
Alan also learned from Paul Lam- a student of Leung Sheung.
The Lee shing people and Paul Lam were NOT close.
Alan went to Hong Kong to learn from Koo sang.
Kernspecht had contacted Alan early to learn wing chun but Alan was headed for the US.
Alan has had some health problems and a major accident but he still teaches as much as he can.
His warrior spirit sees him through.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1093670]
Ip Chun is Ip Man’s son right? his heir right?
Doen’t he have the “real” Ip Man WC? and doesn’t he KNOW who his father trained and what his father said and so forth?
Wouldn’t HE be the one with the “real history” ??
Just curious.[/QUOTE]
My Father is an engineer and mechanic and has been for 50 years, i could talk all day about cars etc and hold my own. Ask me to fix something other than the simple stuff and i have NO CLUE what to do. So just because you are closely related to an expert in anything doesn’t mean you are the rightful heir, right ?
My Sifu recalls a time when Ip Man said in front of a bunch of students that Ip Chun can call himself Ip Man’s son, but not a student of wing Chun.
Now this may have changed over the following years so take it for what its worth. My Sifu only told me this when i asked years ago and hasn’t mentioned anything since, its not meant to bad mouth anyone but it is an occasion he witnessed and told me about when asked. Ip Chun and Sifu knew each other well so he has right to an opinion.
He did also say it was well know at the time that Ip Ching had the skills and put in the work where as Ip Chun started at such a late age and was said to not be as dedicated to training.
There was and still is a difference between being intentionally taught and just being privy to everything wing chun because you were around it all the time.
Im also told that the third son (to Ip’s Mistress) Ip Wah was actually beter than Ip Chun. No one ever talks about it, ive never heard this from anyone other than my Sifu so ive never mentoined it either. :o
FWIW i have seen some Ip Chun students out there, im not a fan of the details of thier style because its different from mine BUT i have seen some skilled guys, so i rate them regardless of which lineage they are.
No Disrespect intended.
Im also told that the third son (to Ip’s Mistress) Ip Wah was actually beter than Ip Chun. No one ever talks about it, ive never heard this from anyone other than my Sifu so ive never mentoined it either(Liddell)
Much better but was not close to his father.He went on to Dragon style.A sad story and part of Ip man’s private life.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1093940]My students know more WC than my sons. Being blood to a Sifu doesn’t guarantee that you got all the goodies. That really applies when the sons don’t come on the scene until the later declining years of the Sifu and have never fought to test their art. ;)[/QUOTE]
Couple of things I wanted to point out with concerns to your comment…
one, Lo Man Kam actually laughed when he was questioned about certain other WC “Sifu’s” saying they had the true WC versus his other students. He then went on to point out that he would NEVER had taught something watered down to his own sons.
Also, how do you know what Ip Ching / Ip Chun has done fight wise?
If you go to HK and talk to the current practitioners, they will generally point you in the direction of Ip Ching as one of if not the most knowledeable Sifu’s teaching today. WSL was known as the fighter more then anything.
My Sifu has said Ip Wah has good Wing Chun.
[QUOTE=aelward;1094581]My Sifu has said Ip Wah has good Wing Chun.[/QUOTE]
Unlike Ip Chun who is diabolical!!!
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1094547]Alan Lamb was probably the first British wing chun sifu. He knew Lee Shing and learned from him. He worked out more with Lee Shing’s protege Joseph Cheng ( they(Cheng etc) stood somewhat side bodied) What really happened to Cheng?- we just have stories.I have somewhere Cheng’s book and the dummy pics.
Alan also learned from Paul Lam- a student of Leung Sheung.
The Lee shing people and Paul Lam were NOT close.
Alan went to Hong Kong to learn from Koo sang.
Kernspecht had contacted Alan early to learn wing chun but Alan was headed for the US.
Alan has had some health problems and a major accident but he still teaches as much as he can.
His warrior spirit sees him through.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Alan Lamb was the first westerner to be VTAA certified. AFAIK John Darwen (of the same lineage) was the first British man to teach wck. Possible the first westerner outside of Britain too. Neither actually studied under Lee Shing. Maybe the odd correction or class watched by LS but no actual study.
The stories of Joseph Cheng stem from his publisher I believe. Certainly up until a couple of years ago he was actually alive and well, and teaching on the mainland.
Kernshpect went on to learn from Simon Lau, which explains a lot of his mentality. lets leave that one there though.
By all accounts Paul Lam had some great wck and taught alongside Greco Wong for a while. i dont think the problem was with the majority of LS people - just Joseph Cheng.
In LSWC there is pien san wck too. The Fung Sang connection was only recently added (in the last few years) prior to that LS’s pien san instructor was always listed as a Fung name that nobody had previously heard of.
I am of the opinion that Lee Sing also studied alongside Jui Wan and Pan Nam under Jui Wans uncle too.
This was my original lineage and any information I have mentioned here has been mentioned in passing between guys that have been around since '71 or has been relayed through various other family members
[QUOTE=Graham H;1094593]Unlike Ip Chun who is diabolical!!![/QUOTE]
when you are someone’s equal then you can judge. Ip Chun and his students are well respected within the HK wing chun community and have answered challenge matches on behalf of the VTAA on numerous occassions. Whatever the history, those seniors who trained under Yip Man have for the most part chosen to maintain a dignified position accepting each other for you they are and the remarkable skills they each have. What a pity that some of their students, students students, etc (maybe I didn’t cover enough generations for you graham?) don’t have the same level of dignity and respect. There is more to kung fu than physical actions how you behave reflects on you, your kung fu and on your sifu.
WingchunIan–re your post-
well said.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1094386]Question for you. Why is Lee Shing listed under the Gulao (Koo Loo) branch of Wing Chun from Leung Jan as opposed to Ip Man’s lineage?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branches_of_Wing_Chun
Do you guys do Pien San (side body)?[/QUOTE]
This is a bit of an oldie, but I will answer seeing that you asked!
From what I have been told, the information was gathered from Sifu Joseph Lee for inclusion in Robert Chus book and that basic information has done the rounds. With Sifu Austin Goh and his top student Jurg Ziegler in Europe, the pien san approach to training was propogated in the nineties. This is not something I support but I can understand the marketing aspect of ‘showing something new’. We tend to say that LSWC is Ip Man WCK with a Fung family flavour!
http://www.flystudio.co.uk/media/gallery/photos/photos_0.html
FWIW Read my signature for the answer about pien san wing chun…