From the Chin-woo site;
I find the article interesting because at the end of the rather large spew, he breaks down a statement using the same “out of context” logic he says he’s complaining about.
I keep wondering what is it exactly that he does for the mantis community??
No,..I guess I do know; He is quite entertaining!
http://chinwoo.lifehome-china.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=8
Both Steve Cottrell and Kai Uwe Pel have been tremendous sources of information (at least for me) in the past. It’s a shame this is happening.
“Fan Xu Dong grouped his system and it’s parts into three theoretical levels. He gave them names: Qixing, Meihua and Guangban.”
So which is the highest level? (Don’t get mad if your style is the lowest guys)
“He makes the conclusion that all the forms and ideas that Fan Xu Dong grouped as ‘Meihua’ must have been lifted directly from the parallel mantis style/family group “Meihua Tang Lang” and so on”
Guess I’m an idiot, I would have thought the same thing. If the choices are he swiped it or he made up the exact same thing independantly I think the odds are closer to swiping it.
"I have not found it in mainland Qixing Tanglang Quan. (Please if I am mistaken someone correct me).”
No, let’s ridicule you, demonize you, and then correct you. Give me a break. All you need to do is fire off a post saying “No Steve, my research indicates you are wrong. Here’s why …”.
“Moreover I, Kai Uwe Pel have been insulted personally and …”
Want to kick his a$$? Sorry, couldn’t resist it. 
Hopefully Pel Sifu puts as much into his kung fu as he puts into his debating studies and forum analysis.
And Mr. Pel (I’m sure you are reading this), I call on you bury the hatchet and openly share information especially if it conflicts with the conclusions of others. No need to shoot the messenger either.
We’re all waiting to learn, are you up for the challenge?
BTW, I hope Mr. Pel is not locked out of participating on the MQ Forum (although my opinion of shanghai kid is rather low, you can leave him out). Sorry SK, you need to be a little less caustic when you post.
First of all I want to state that I am by NO MEANS an expert on anything, nor do I consider myself anything more than a budding historian. So as far as Cottrell Laoshi’s resources I cannot speak. He has presented some very strong arguments and considerations for those of us interested to ponder.
I have know him for a couple years now, have met with him, discussed with him, trained with him (and his students), and had friendly disagreements with him. NEVER, and I mean NEVER has Cottrell laoshi even mentioned that he is close to being a “Master” so I am not sure where this comes from. He is one of the most humble individuals I have met in the CMA community, and has never referred to himself as anything more than a serious student.
But for sake of argument let’s say Kai Uwe Pel has a point. First question: what the hell is the point? He has not presented any evidence refuting Cottrell’s “lies”! In my limited scholastic experience you cannot tell someone their info is wrong without backing it up yourself. Conjecture does not count.
Secondly: MantisZombie raises the best point, what is Pel doing for the greater CMA community, or for the Mantis community? If indeed Cottrell is a gigantic boob, at the very least he is putting forth 110% effort to raise the standard’s of the Mantis community through his publication, site, forum, books and efforts to unite the community. This is more than anyone else is doing right now, so where does anyone have the right to criticize!? If Pel is so hell bent on being right and proper, I offer a challenge (and no not the typical BS kind we see on this forum). Pel I challenge you to print (on your site would be fine, but even better to print it in the Quarterly) historical evidence supporting your claims! I will personally enure you get this info into print if you so desire. IF you do not / will not then I think it time you quit, and chill out. These BS attacks are doing NOTHING for ANYONE! And to bring Robert Hui into this in such a manner is disgraceful. You should be ashamed!
Sincerely
Jake Burroughs
www.threeharmonies.com
Thank you note:
First and foremost, thank you Jake. you are a pal.
Thank you Kai Uwe Pel for the Honorary mention of my name and post on the World Chin Woo Men organization’s website (such a presence).
Here’s the entire post that was on the Mantis Quarterly forum in reply and support to our friend here on KFM as well.
Hi Shirker1,
Don’t feel bad or upset about those ignorant people. Martial arts, even teaching it, is a learning process. The problem is that it takes time for the would be martial artist to mature especially when the guidance was off in the first place. You see, today a lot of the schools regardless of style hardly have the time to educate their students to appreciate and respect other arts. When student learn a skill set, they believe it’s the only thing that will work which translates into it makes them the bestest and badest Mofu on earth. Nowadays humility can only be taught by humiliation (it seems that what they have been doing).
The lack of respect for Kung Fu and in this case mantis, but not specific to you, is not entirely the other “arts” fault (assuming the critics are from other MA disciplines). Real Kung Fu has been a closed door process for such a long time that people really had little to reference with. Adding to the problem that imagination of theatrical plight has captured the hearts and minds of Kung Fu audience. This is all due to the lack of transparency of the trainning processs. It became so superficial that if you don’t hop into a mantis stance and sway like a mantis you are not doing mantis. If you do use punching and kicking, well you are kickboxing! BTW using Quan Chui and Beng Chui as combo means that you are frailing!!! What made the matter worst is that even our own mantis community behave the same way. Elitism exist in Mantis community as well.
I always maintian that I am not the best (perhaps never will be the best). But it is important that we contribute and open up the learning process. If we believe in and passionate about our arts, it is okay even if we are being ridicule. The ego is a small sacrifice for the cause. Keep that grand vision in mind and move forward. I believe that’s the very spirit that puts the Mantis Quarterly on the mantis world map in such a short time. That’s why we are here lending the support to the vision and to the leadship of Sifu Cottrell.
So my friend keep the sharing coming.
Warm regards
Mantis108
Contraria Sunt Complementa
Your mind must be a scary place to be sometimes! (hmmmmm, have to think about that for a while…kind of like that movie “Being John Malcovitch”…“Being Mantis108”…) - Sifu Cottrell
So there you have it folks. Like Jake, I feel the same away about Sifu Cottrell.
If Kai Uwe Pel feels that keeping students and others in the dark is going to be better for Tanglang and for the world, by all means let them go that path. Frankly, ignorant is bliss. Perhaps that would help them focus and master their style(s). Is this the middle ages or information age? [in the voice of Dr. Mccoy of USS Enterprise.]
A friendly reminder, I am the kind of person that believes no free press is bad press (pun intended); thus, my sincere thanks. By all means quote what I had said. I stand by what I said. I have no desire to tell people what’s correct and what’s incorrect. I share my opinions base on my own understanding. I don’t “enslave” people with titles, ranks and such. So I am NO master of anyone or anything. I coexist happily with the reality that which we called the world. I certain don’t nor try to manipulate anything in any way, form or shape including the media/press. 
So now back to our next episode of “As our Mantis world turns” (re:Coronation Street of Mantis community). ;p
Mantis108
Man, and I was just on the verge of believing that you and Steve are evil geniuses bent on enslaving the Mantis community.
Whew, that was close. Thanks.
No native speaker!
Again, I´m very sad that english is not my native language and I can´t accurately write down what I´m thinking …
First: Sifu Cottrell is a person of great knowledge and very fine behaviour. I don´t recognize anything at anytime where he is arrogant or insulting anyone! What Sifu Cottrell did for the Mantis Community is without example in any other Martial Art Community! We owe him a lot! My Opnion!
Second: I can´t remember anyone (ok, except me in the Beginning!) attacking Kai Uwe Pel here! Anyone was very polite to him like everyone is most of the time in general. So why did he and his ShangHai Buddies attacking everyone all the time? It´s a shame. And this does nothing for the mantis World but does a lot against it!
Third: Quote from the mentioned text “This statement is a call to all self-respecting Praying Mantis family members who also respect their families and masters to avoid Steve Cottrell and his work.” This comes from someone who all the time disrespect his family and his master! Who disrespect his master (Sifu Lee Kam Wing) while being his student and claimed to be his follower! Who will take this statment serious?
Once again I ask myself: what is wrong with this man? What kind of problems did he got? What does the cruel world did to him?
I´m sure Kai Uwe will not believe me, but i would be happy if he calms down and accept the difference in the mantis world and live with everyone in peace.
Man now my name SHIRKERS1 has been dragged into this world mantis war!!! Oh nooo. Thanks robert!!! just kidding.
Well It’s none of my business who is trying to discredit who. Bottom line is where I come from that was a pretty un honorable thing to do by Mr. pel. For someone who trains as much as Mr. pel I find it weird that he has this much time to write small novellas dissecting the psyche’s of other people. I barely have enough time to train and put up meaningless posts on here much less the deep thoughtful content that Mr. pel comes up with. I mean come on now. To put up something like that on the chin woo site is retarded. If you train at chin woo then you already know where you stand in the MA world why discredit someone else? Why bother?
Mr. Pel, listen if your mission is to better mantis then do it in a positive way not a negative way by trying to discredit what others have to say. SHOW what you have to offer. Actions speak louder than words. In america that is where it’s at, the proof is in the pudding. If you have “it” then you can show “it” for all to see. Anyone including myself can sit here and type up a lot of stuff about nothing and everything. But it boils down to when I show up somewhere and someone wants to see what I have to offer. Am I going to talk my way out of it? Or show what I have to offer? I know what I am willing and able to do. So there is the question, are you going to SHOW what you have to offer or expect others to “believe” what you say without seeing what you have to offer?
Seems to me from his posts on this forum that Sifu Cottrel very respectful and knowedgable about Northern mantis.
and that is all I have to say about that
I’m thinking an open invitation for Mr. Pel to attend the Mantis gathering next year might be a good first step in smoothing relations with everyone in the community. I think we’re all interested in what he has to offer. What do you think shirkers1?
hua lin is trying to get me in trouble >:)
Well let me think how to word it so I don’t get the smack down again. JK bai you have a job and you do it well
Yes I agree. Like I said a positive way to get your views across as well as a respected one would be to show what you have to offer. People respect action more than words in the states. So if the mainland 7* community were to represent themselves in cleveland in april, I think a lot of this mess could be cleared up. It would be a great opportunity for the chin woo to show the world what most people haven’t been able to see yet myself included. This would also give a chance for it to happen in a friendly manor instead of negative words on a messege board or internet site. But that’s just my opinion.
If I understand correctly, Steve Cottrell is an evil man who is trying to distort Mantis information and propagate an “unatuthentic style,” AND he does this by publishing a newsletter that has contributions from noted Mantis scholars/practitioners and the like?
Wow, Steve I guess I need change my opinion of you.
NOT.
Steve, thanks for what you do for us Mantis people, don’t let the “press” get you down.
Joe Mantis
P.S. I HOLD THE TRUE TEACHINGS OF MANTIS!!!
I read the doc on the link.
I am astonished that this is still going on (Sifu Pel vs. Sifu Cottrell, the world and all that is wrong with TangLang on planet earth). I was also disappointed to read Robert Hui’s name mentioned in such an uncomplimentary manner as well. :mad:
Sifu Cottrell has been and remains an exemplary contributor to the TangLang community. Same for Mr. Hui I might add.
Best regards,
UM.
pel’s link
just read it, wow!!, and he gave the pong lai group crap about our shrfu’s challenge to him.
I like HLL’s idea, come to the mantis gathering next year.
Mr. Pel is just looking for more attention, and you guys just gave it to him.
When I first started mantis I really enjoyed this forum, now I couldn’t care less, it like the circus, with too much attention givin to the clowns.
Skard1
So then you don’t mind if someone publicly talks shlit about you?
If you don’t respond to accusations it can be construed as accepting it as truth. The way I grew up you don’t let anyone run around town talking shlit about you without standing up and answering back. Anything less is either a sign of weakness or an indication that the shlit is true. But then your Canadian and you guys get along with everyone.
As for Mr. Pel getting attention there might come a time when the attention he gets is more than what he wanted. That’s his life to live so it really doesn’t affect me one bit. I just hate to see any more polarization among the community than there already is, especially at a time when it looks like everyone is coming together.
BTW, been wondering what happened to you and a few others. I’ve left a few times myself but eventually I come back.
WWKCCD?
I think in these type of situations it’s good to ask ourselves,
WWKCCD?
or
What would Kwai Chang Caine do?
Ha ha…
Good alter saying don’t you think?
Sifu Cottrell
Not to jump on the bandwagon but I have been reading these threads for some time and even though I do not know either of these men nor am I affiliated with either of their systems I am of the opinion: Most of the information that Mr. C has provided seems very in-depth and full of useful material. Much of what is in the MQ is above my level of understanding at this time so I can not determine the authenticity. However I do know that many of his resources are recognized authorities of PM. To fault Mr. C and the MQ is to insult the Mantis Community. Many of the posters here have contributed as I understand it. People like Tainan Mantis, Mantis 108, Hua Lin Laoshi (Sifu it was nice to finally meet you), German Bai Lung (Nice Website, my German is no where near as good as your English so don’t feel bad), and YuShan and the Pong Lai group, all back Mr. C. I find it hard to believe he could fool them all.
Mr. Pel has provided some useful threads but more times then not they turn to criticizing Mr. C. I am not sure what has cause this line in the sand but Pel seems more intent on dragging it up and through the mud over and over and over… It’s one thing to disagree but to assert that someone is passing off half rate material without substantial evidence has me questioning his motive??? Maybe he is trying to get himself more attention and is willing to do it by drawing attention to Mr. C. as well.
Of, course isn’t it the nature of MA to be combative? We train to fight not to hold study groups. Although we live in a time where sharing information is more important then worrying about walking down the street the nature of what we do has not changed. Men are no more nor less the beast we have always been. If you want to survive must be willing to fight, but, of course, you don’t have to.
My Two Cents
RibHit
fm
Hua Lin Laoshi - I drop by now and then, and yes I agree with what your saying, its good to stand up for yourself, but If I were to defend myself everytime someone was talking smack, I wouldn’t have time to train.
Plus I’m Canadaian, so I do try to get along with everyone…well except Wing Chun guys.
And now Clown Pel will be riding a elephant performing single broadsword, while re-educating the mantis community… may I have your attention to the center ring.
Re: Interesting Piece
Originally posted by MantisZombie
I keep wondering what is it exactly that he does for the mantis community??
Everything else aside, it’s clear from Sifu Pel’s technical writings that he is very traditional, and he knows his stuff.
N.