I’m sorry fellas but I’m still not convinced. Now since you guys are already set in your views and I’m set in mine, I think I’m going to stop my side of the discussion since it won’t get us anywhere 
OK?
mun hung
I believe your story. But that’s the exception, not the rule
That’s like using one example of a martial artist being beaten by an untrained 10 year old…that doesn’t mean all 10 year olds can beat martial artists. In most cases, I’d think the martial artist would win…unless of course, he’s a 2 year old
EmptyCup
Perhaps you should change your alias.
Escrima with Wing Tsun
I agree, along with the topic. Unless of course you really want to arfue the point more on training your tools to work as efficiently as possible.
So what?
Hi!
To Dzu and Whipping Hand: Theoretically you’re right. I’d recommend you, to take a look at the two videos about knife-surviving by Marc “Animal” McYoung. There you’ll see how much of your Wing Chun will be of use in a knife-situation.
I see it like this: Any given style just teaches you some theoretical advices how you could handle a weapon-situation, it’s not: should or will. But the idea of the advice you learn, is how to e. g. get out of a knife-attack when you’re unarmed without getting killed - you’ll get hurt anyway. It’s just a question of limiting the hurts you get. Not more, not less.
And if you are realistically, and I belive you are, than you have to admitt, that even when you are armed too, the chances of surviving a weapon-fight are only slightly better than unarmed.
My Eskrima-teacher (maybe you know him: Sifu Heinrich Pfaff from the EWTO) once told us, that, if you are untrained with weapons, you got a 50 % chance of winning a fight (“winning” means: he gets hurt more than you). If you are trained with weapons your chance changes to not more than 51 %. And everyone that has trained e. g. Eskrima with a beginner will tell, that I’m right. There’s nothing mopre dangerous than a beginner with a weapon in a hand.
So, this was my last statement to this discussion - as I said, everyone has his own opinion and without putting the stuff to the test and showing what you mean, I feel, there’s no sense of this. Sorry.
Armin.
my point
My point is that many WC practitioners perceive a weakness in weapons training and then incorporate eskrima training as a substitute. A better alternative would be to ask their Sifu about the WC weapons and if a response is given that is questionable, consider changing Sifu. I am not unrealistic about weapons work. I expect to be cut in a knife fight and hit in a fist fight regardless of whether I use WC or eskrima.
Nobody in this thread has claimed that the WC weapons were superior to eskrima. However, there are some people that think the WC weapons are inferior to eskrima and that is what I have an issue with. My statement is that the WC weapons are no better and no worse. The system simply is, and it is up to the Sifu and the student to make the most of it and discover what the universal truths to fighting are.
regards,
Dzu
Armin
Train the Wing Chun weapons, before you criticize, or don’t say you know Wing Chun, at all. To know Wing Chun is to understand it’s entirety. That includes weapons. If you want to focus on the hands. Fine, then let’s clarify… You train Wing Chun hands; not Wing Chun. Enough of this crap about Wing Chun weapons being inferior. The only thing inferior is the people who don’t train them, to understand them.
Hi!
To Whipping Hand: Did I say that? Please re-read my posts.
Armin.
Sorry …
I read my last posts and, ok, they’re misunderstandable.
What I meant was, that it really depends on the amount of time you spend training weapons. Most south-east-asia styles spend nearly all the time on weapons, how much do we in Wing Chun? I’d say it’s less.
Armin.
Don’t need to re-read
Ask how much YOU train weapons? And ask yourself how that contributes to the above notion.
A question to all the Escrima/wing chun practitioners
How much faster are your escrima techniques than your WC weapons techniques?
i’m a little late but heres what i think
weapons are are inportant one is they build strenght two dexterity, and i disagree that these weapons can’t be applied in the street. example
i think you can apply the butterfly knives priciples to anything you could hold in each hand
as for the long pole. someone in the post said something to the affect of northern pole techniques are better more power etc. southern techniques are striking with one end like a spear
well how about lets say an average broom stick
very easly broken if swung like a baseball bat
aka something like northern pole. and also easy to block . now try using it like a spear ala southern pole same broom stick will be stronger and harder to block. just my opinion
nelson
The Weapons
You still have to remember, the weapon in use is only as good as the person using it.
…and the techniques he learned…
Armin,
The Cat taught my teacher at the Castle for four years before he moved to California to open his own schools. I am his ‘senior’ student and teach three of the school’s locations.
Whipping Hand, you undoubtedly possess knowledge. You have made that plain. You remind me of a sihing I once had. Smart guy, lots talent, but has yet to ‘understand it in it’s entirety’.
I miss him sometimes.
WH knows what he’s talking about, frustratingly
My anus is superiorâ„¢
Yes!
I totally agree with Empty Cup.
-Scott
“Life is hard, but so am I.” – The Eels.
weapons
the more time a person trains with a weapon for combat uses, the more likely that this person will be dependent on the weapon during combat.
lotus kick
please elaborate
Escrima Vs WT weapons
Just to clarify, I train both.
What I find is that the escrimador typically is better at armed combat than the WT quy. Is that because Escrima is better, absolutely not. Its simply a matter of the time spend training. Where the WT student starts with unarmed combat and thereafter progress to armed combat (for most people a secondary thing), an escrimador will train with weapons from day one. Thereby the stick/knife/axe/whatever is an integrated part of his fighting.
Also most escrimadors have sparring matches with padded sticks which really helps building a solid fighting potential. Most WT weapons training is about forms, and not many people do actual fighting. That a shame.