CM - thanks. Where do you live? I’m in the SF bay area.
Be careful MST, you are close to saying something nice about a person in Oklahoma. Your punishment will surely be swift. 
Ah, Oklahoma…you know what comes from Oklahoma…??
Only kidding…besides the second thing from Oklahoma all seem to live here!?!
It’s about neutralizing the threat.
This is winning. Winning is contextual.
Only kidding…besides the second thing from Oklahoma all seem to live here!?!
We’ve got plenty of them here, too. Lots of Army and Air Force bases in OKlahoma, and lots of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell going on.
Besides, steer burgers are good.
Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
[B]Maybe it’s because I started MA in Judo, but I always beleived in the value of some form of sportive activity. It serves as a drill for identifying flaws in your training goals - as long you don’t start playing the ‘game’ invented by the rules.
While I have won more than I have lost, I never collected my trophies or medals - to me the real reward was the insights into training. Fortunately, there are a few records around, so my students know I am not full of BS…
Shuai Chiao has always had a sportive aspect to it. This is perhaps why it is widely respected, because the use of that sportive aspect allows you to develop realistic expectations and skill in real free-fighting, Something you cannot get from more controlled training.
Personally, I am of the opinion that many schools that develop ‘amazing’ skills do it under the controlled circumstances of the classroom that allow for the perfect set-up to be given to the ‘master.’ I think this is true of most, but not all Aikido and Taiji schools to cite two good examples. I always go back to that Jim Carrey Karate teacher skit from ‘in living color’ - stuff cracks me up because it is SO true.
Then in the TMA, you have situations where the teacher isolates himself from challenge. This invites stagnation of skill. While I do not expect every teacher to be a superman - you don’t see many boxing coaches climbing in the ring wiith thier protege’s - your teacher should have obvious skill and a willingness to play with it. My Shuai Chiao teacher would never fight us - but we never expected him too. A.) He was much older and b.) he is a very, very busy physician - he has no where the training time we have. But his skill was evident in his lessons and in the product he produced - his students are all good fighters - and they compete.
In the MMA - you do have a lot of smack being talked. While there IS some truth to it, it does negatively impact the less well adjusted of the students. I’ve had to hurt pretty badly some poor whelps who beleived the smack and thought they would have some fun with a TMA guy. It is irresponsible behavior - but with the poor training methodology of most CMA, the tendancy for secrecy,and the unwillingness to take advantage on environments to test those skills against resisting opponents - what do you expect.
If you call yourself ‘sifu’ - and you have never tested your skill outside of your club - do you really have the ‘kung fu’ in MA to call yourself that?
If you isolate yourself along ethnic or cultural lines do you not limit your experience? I’ll never be a BJJ guy - heck I’ve got knives - but it is good to know how to fight them. Ground grappling has evolved - remember what Sunb Tzu said “Know your Enemy, and Know Yourself” This means KNOW them, not fantasize about what you’ll do to them.
In my fighting prime I sought out the ‘top’ perceived schools of the day and played against them, with thier rules if need be. If you have Kung Fu, you should not be concerned about playing with a MMA guy. Period. Let me tell you, they are not all Frank Shamrock…
This is a wake up call for all who call themselves ‘teacher’ or ‘coach’ or sifu or master. The world today has become like the days of old. Fighters are willing to fight, test thier skills, and learn from each other. If that life was good enough for Chang Tung-Sheng, Wang Xangzhai, and Li Ciun Yi - it is good enough for us.
So go out and live the martial fantasy, instead of just fantasizing about it. [/B]
nice.
CM - MStoo knows, therefore he need not assume. He is mostly apart from the business aspect of the MA, therefore he need not obfuscate.
Originally posted by Water Dragon
best post ever
Didn’t you give this award to sifuabel a few months ago?
Originally posted by SevenStar
[B]
As has been pointed out though, you can’t really get the full effect merely from sparring in your school. That is a group of guys that you train with regularly. They tend to cooperate way more than someone from another school, especially in competition. Also, when you train with the same people, you begin to know them, and it makes fighting them somewhat predictable, as you know what to expect from them. This is where you can see high value in competition. [/B]
Has not been my experience…as stated in my post this is the way I have trained and it has stood me fast in the street against someone attempting to do me in with a weapon on more than one occassion…the method has been tested, tried and proved. Remember, in the kwoon you have many brothers whom you will spar against…all types, different approaches, body types, aggression, tactical emphasis etc, etc. As well, your brothers are not static and will be doing different techniques and strategies from one time to the next. Nothing wrong with sparring someone from a different system though…just not necessary to be effective in self-defense on the street. The student can use this method of training for as long as he is in the kwoon and the benefits of training this way will continue for the student…those who say nay are usually those students who due to their own ego, stop learning from the instructions from the Sifu, from the system and it’s method(s). Instead the student is stuborn or thinks too much of himself in that ‘he knows better than the Sifu and his fellow students’ and insists on doing his own thing time and time again even though it does not work too well and he is advised it is not the way to do it. At this point the student is no longer able to learn due to his own mind set and ego. Unless he can overcome this it would be best for him to leave the kwoon and stay away until he can be open to learning.
GHD
Another thing… Your kung fu brothers in the kwoon will train more safely with you, try harder to avoid injury. In competition its not that people dont care (some dont) but care much less wheather you get hurt.
MS,
check your PMs
My sifu instructed me to seek out practicioners of other styles and spar them.
To be fair, I studied semi-privately and there weren’t too many sparring partners to choose from at our spot- just Sifu, my junior classmate, and my Sifu’s friend once or twice.
Cap’n I didn’t get your PM - did you send it to MonkeySlap Too or just MonkeySlap? MonkeySlap disapeered a few e-mail addresses ago, which is why I added Too into the mix.
Originally posted by Meat Shake
Another thing… Your kung fu brothers in the kwoon will train more safely with you, try harder to avoid injury. In competition its not that people dont care (some dont) but care much less wheather you get hurt.
Yes…but you will always get those one or two fellow students that will want to hurt you…and will take an opportuity to do so and then outwardly be all sorry about it. It is about doing your best and caring about your fellow student so that you pull a punch etc that he missed to block, avoid, trap…the skills and tests are still there regardless of whether or not he tries to hurt you. He is trying to do his best so that you will do your best as his partner.
GHD
Gold Horse Dragon …
those who say nay are usually those students who due to their own ego, stop learning from the instructions from the Sifu, from the system and it’s method(s). Instead the student is stuborn or thinks too much of himself in that ‘he knows better than the Sifu and his fellow students’ and insists on doing his own thing time and time again even though it does not work too well and he is advised it is not the way to do it. At this point the student is no longer able to learn due to his own mind set and ego. Unless he can overcome this it would be best for him to leave the kwoon and stay away until he can be open to learning.
what you say might have some truth to it, but it sounds like you are completely denying the benefits of competitions. are they absolutely necessary to make a good fighter? i’d say probably not, but that doesn’t mean you should completely dismiss any possible gain from it. it’s like saying push ups might not be necessary to make you a competent fighter so don’t bother with them at all.
if you spar half as hard as you say, you will make good fighters, i don’t doubt that. but these guys have a point in that no matter how hard core the sparring is you’re still going to be more comfortable up against someone you know even if you don’t like them. i’m not speaking from experience, but common sense tells me its a whole different ball game when your fighting someone you have never met before and who’s personal style you are not familiar with. and im sure it doesn’t help that you’re doing so in front of a bunch of people, some of whom are counting on you not to embarrass yourself.
i may never enter a single competition and i have no doubt that i can hold my own especially for my level. but i also accept that i could have been a better fighter if i had. maybe i’m off base on the way i think you view them, but that’s what i have gotten from your posts in this thread.
Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
[B]
what you say might have some truth to it, but it sounds like you are completely denying the benefits of competitions. are they absolutely necessary to make a good fighter? i’d say probably not, but that doesn’t mean you should completely dismiss any possible gain from it. it’s like saying push ups might not be necessary to make you a competent fighter so don’t bother with them at all.
if you spar half as hard as you say, you will make good fighters, i don’t doubt that. but these guys have a point in that no matter how hard core the sparring is you’re still going to be more comfortable up against someone you know even if you don’t like them. i’m not speaking from experience, but common sense tells me its a whole different ball game when your fighting someone you have never met before and who’s personal style you are not familiar with. and im sure it doesn’t help that you’re doing so in front of a bunch of people, some of whom are counting on you not to embarrass yourself.
i may never enter a single competition and i have no doubt that i can hold my own especially for my level. but i also accept that i could have been a better fighter if i had. maybe i’m off base on the way i think you view them, but that’s what i have gotten from your posts in this thread. [/B]
Yes you are off base 
…I did not say there would be nothing gained…just said it is not necessary to be highly effective in street self-defense - just like push ups will not make you effective on the street 
but they will give you somewhat stronger arms and bigger pecs
As you said you are not speaking from experience whereas I am. But I appreciate you view.
I agree with you that mind set is very important - but this can be gained totally in the kwoon if the teaching method is proper.
To recap: yes sparring others outside the club will give you experience with different styles, techniques etc. - but this can also be gained just in the kwoon as well…‘thats all folks’.
GHD
As you said you are not speaking from experience whereas I am.
if you have done competitions and still feel the same way then i respect your opinion more.