Is what some have said here..
Perhaps this guy said the same thing, at one time…
I thought he did alright considering. He clearly lost, but the wrestler didn’t every capitalise on his dominance as much as he could’ve. I was waiting for some kind of finish each time they went to ground. He missed an armbar and a legbar (?). But I wonder - do people actually fight in YGKYM? The WC guy had a very square, YGKYM-inspired stance. That’s just begging for a takedown. Cool vid.
I think that fight showed the two main weaknesses of WC. The vulnerablity to the right cross/overhand right and the takedown. Neither of these is apparent until going at 100 against a grappler/boxer. Many people never do this, which is why why they never see this.
I think it also demonstrated the problem with going for submissions and giving up your position when striking is involved. The grappler probably could have won much sooner if he would have just maintained his position and continued to strike, forgetting about any submissions.
Props to the WC kid for hanging in there, countering many of the ground moves and continuing to bang. I liked his kicks, combine those with some backwards/lateral movement and some sprawl training and he will do much better.
[QUOTE=YungChun;782826]Is what some have said here..
Perhaps this guy said the same thing, at one time…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXgaxLeB5YU[/QUOTE]
This is reflects what I keep saying.
How do we develop the skills so that we don’t get taken down? Essentially, by training against (particularly sparring) with skilled people (at take downs) trying to take us down. There is no other way. And it helps to get coached/taught by people with those skills (that can really do it themselves). Theory won’t help (particularly theory from people who can’t do it themselves). Your skill at dealing with takedowns (like the shoot) will correspond to the amount of time you’ve spent sparring with good people trying to take you down. Little to no time doing it = little to no skill doing it. Simple.
And you’ll find that by doing that, it will change your entire game – from how you stand to how you move to how you strike to how you do everything. Because everything you do can create openings for the takedown/shoot.
no style is perfect
people we have to understand that no style is perfect. That is why you train so hard and long. So eventually you have no style, it just eminates from you when it is needed. I studied Aikido under Kanai shihan, who lived with the founder for 10 years. Now this was real aikido, not alot of the aikido I see today, that used to make my sensei sick, you know, the aikido that is more likve yoga, or some kind of religious thing. For us, we trained serious budo, for real combat. Sensei always told us to explore, learn other things. To complete ourselves. To be ready for any type of style and combat.
His takedown defense was pretty poor but the rest of his game was OK IMO.
He was never in real trouble on the ground, and some of what he was doing was reasonably sound, controlling the arms, pulling guard when the takedown was on, etc.; and when the MMA guy did fall over his ground defense was IMO no better and arguably worse.
Both of these guys are young kids. I am sure both learned a lot from this bout. Props to both for mixing it up.
I think this was just a fairly informal bout in a gym somewhere. Most sanctioned events allow you to wear shoes or kick, but not both.
This is reflects what I keep saying.
And what most other people have said for years too.
If my Wing Chun is good I won’t be taken down.
If my grappling is good I won’t get hit.
If my driving skills are good I’ll never get into a wreck.
If my wishing skills are good enough Jessica Alba will marry me and I’ll become a stay at home dad.
[QUOTE=anerlich;783044]His takedown defense was pretty poor but the rest of his game was OK IMO.
[/QUOTE]
First of all, I agree with you that both deserve props for getting in there.
That said, when I look at the stand up skills of the WCK fighter, I wouldn’t call it “OK”, just the opposite. Besides being taken down just about at will by his opponent – which is not just a matter of his “takedown defense” but also in how he is moving – the WCK guy really didn’t have much in the way of offensive skills, not helped by his maintaining “the wing chun guard” (which only limits your offense), he kept doing the silly TWC entry-hop-thingy, and really didn’t seem to have much going for him - certainly not a good game plan. Moreover, I really didn’t see much WC, even TWC, other than the dancing around in the “wing chun guard” and the hopping-entry. All I saw was poor kickboxing.
If people want to kickbox, they would be wise to do something besides WCK, perhaps something that has proved to be a really good kickboxing method (cough, muay thai, cough).
He was never in real trouble on the ground, and some of what he was doing was reasonably sound, controlling the arms, pulling guard when the takedown was on, etc.; and when the MMA guy did fall over his ground defense was IMO no better and arguably worse.
The MMA fighter – a wrestler according to the video caption – did give up position too much (going for subs as Dale pointed out). And he didn’t have a very good stand-up game either. That said, he dominated the WCK guy. Not really surprising when you train a bunch of stuff that you can just never make work.
Both of these guys are young kids. I am sure both learned a lot from this bout. Props to both for mixing it up.
I think this was just a fairly informal bout in a gym somewhere. Most sanctioned events allow you to wear shoes or kick, but not both.
These sorts of things can be instructive for everyone - provided they look at them critically.
And what most other people have said for years too.
Well, certainly not WCK people. 
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;783118]
“the wing chun guard” (which only limits your offense)
[/QUOTE]
Are we talking about Jong Sao?
Please elaborate…on why and what…
he kept doing the silly TWC entry-hop-thingy
You are ignorant on this subject, but as usual that doesn’t stop you from blathering on at length.
The principles of the TWC entry technique and MT “compound defense” are actually pretty much the same. And it’s NOT A ******* HOP!
And yes, it all comes down to training methods.
And BTW, MT specialists who don’t practice takedown defense don’t necessarily fare any better than anyone else without those skills. John Wayne Parr got taken down and beaten in about 20 seconds by Tony Bonello here a while ago. JWP is an elite Muay Thai fighter, but …
If he learned anything - when he fights another wrestler we should expect him to not be so greedy and reckless with his punches.
He looked to not have good control of his range, rather just bursting in haphazard which gave rize to the takedown…
While you might like to dog on the guy/s for whatever, we dont really know if this is day two or year two of training for these guys so…
Talk technique all you want…
[QUOTE=Liddel;783173]
If he learned anything - when he fights another wrestler we should expect him to not be so greedy and reckless with his punches.
[/quote]
[QUOTE=Liddel;783173]
He looked to not have good control of his range, rather just bursting in haphazard which gave rize to the takedown…
[/quote]
Agreed..
Entry should be measured and cautious, especially in a match; we need to be keenly aware of the range and position of ourselves and the opponent… Actually, leaping into range isn’t a good idea or really what the “method” 
is all about…
When we do enter we need to take his balance and hurt him relentlessly…
Well-
You can clearly tell it’s a Cheung school-the only thing I will comment on is that many times the TWC entry wasn’t done at the correct angle to maintain the outside line
But nice for 2 16 year old kids and nicer that the school trains somewhat realistically against grapplers
-And you will be seeing more of this Andrew “Chu” kid–
Lifting the lead knee like that and skipping, hopping, sliding in, however one does it certainly is not limited to TWC and is something that is common among folks who fight kickers.. I used to do this often when crossing that line with kickers, assuming I wasn’t kicking myself, to jam and enter into hand range. It can work well depending on the timing and distance used but not something that should be done all the time.. For example I would NOT use this unless absolutely necessary when fighting a grappler or against someone who may grapple, and I would use kicks sparingly against same as kicking to enter on grapplers just gives them a nice big handle to catch..
[QUOTE=YungChun;783150]Are we talking about Jong Sao?
Please elaborate…on why and what…[/QUOTE]
“Jong sao”? Is that what you call it?
Extending an arm away from the body and holding it there in some “ready stance” like this guy (and many WCK people do) is generally a mistake in fighting – it limits the things you can do both with your arm and body, offensively and defensively. Even for simple, basic things like using your shoulder (or hands) to cover your chin. As you can see from the video, it really didn’t serve him and if his opponent had had decent hands, you would have seen why it is a mistake.
[QUOTE=anerlich;783167]You are ignorant on this subject, but as usual that doesn’t stop you from blathering on at length.
[/QUOTE]
No, I’m not ignorant on this subject, just not brainwashed.
The principles of the TWC entry technique and MT “compound defense” are actually pretty much the same. And it’s NOT A ******* HOP!
Oh, please! The “principles” are the last refuge of the TMAs – “we have the principles”. Well, the principles don’t matter. For the most part, “principles” are part of the brainwashing. What matters is what you do and how well you do it. Good MT guys don’t move like TWC guys, so they are not doing the same things. Certainly, they are not “hopping in.”
I know you guys say it is not a hop, but when you see it applied, what do you see? A hop (lift a leg and dart forward). LOL! A useless, pointless, hop. One that tells the other guy you are coming, that won’t provide any real defense or offense, that certainly will limit what you can do, how you can adjust, etc. Really “brilliant” stuff.
And yes, it all comes down to training methods.
Training methods guided by results. And to be guided by results, we need to critically examine our results, to look with an unbaised eye at how things really are.
And BTW, MT specialists who don’t practice takedown defense don’t necessarily fare any better than anyone else without those skills. John Wayne Parr got taken down and beaten in about 20 seconds by Tony Bonello here a while ago. JWP is an elite Muay Thai fighter, but …
I completely agree with you, but that wasn’t my point. My point was that if someone wants to kickbox well, then there are better methods than WCK for kickboxing - like MT.
Im in agreement with dr leungjohn & liddel here…both the distance and angles ??
The exercise Seung -ma x Toi -ma in early chisao deals with this very important aspect of developing a natural instinct to angle while maintaining our maximum force relative to an arm/body …the guy should have delivered body behind a punch at precisely the time he didnt 
many hit with arms, after the body takes them to their destination [ chisao trains this mistake out] …when they arrive they arent were they need to be [chisao one checks the stages, angles, elbows in ] , they have gone a stop to far on the train…[ chisao , too close to deliver force…] chisao contains a simple method / process to use the SLT & Chum Kil…not to stick to arms either
let the arms find you while you strike
seung ma x toi ma will cure this…its no guarantee but it isolates the primetime point of maximizing ones ability to attack an attack / punch a punch with both correctly timed leg force behind an extending fist/palm…our inch punches test or ‘proves’ this point of contact in seung ma toi ma…can you get that inch punch distance but deliver it with 2 ft body mass timing proportionate to your body weight and the speed of the incoming head all in one point ?
I feel like Im saying what WSL said in a quote , chisao isnt to tie your opponent up or learn to stick endlessly to their arms..its how to deliver the force of a combined body arm strike while maintaining a tactical flanking action constantly…aka what to do once you arrive in the guys face / space you dont want to be moving stright in or straight back…wrong thinking to start never mind what a boxer will or might do …anyone will throw an over arm hook a school kid in the playground will do this, so why do so many vt guys do it “charge” ! like the light brigade, it may be your last…
[QUOTE=drleungjohn;783239]You can clearly tell it’s a Cheung school-the only thing I will comment on is that many times the TWC entry wasn’t done at the correct angle to maintain the outside line
[/QUOTE]
But you’re not going to be able to “do it at the correct angle” and “maintain the outside line.” The other guy will adjust and face you directly - within a split second - as you move in. It’s not like the demos where the opponent stands there like a statue. Show me one video where someone can use this “entry technique” against someone with decent skills in 100% sparring and maintain the “outside line”.
This is a good example of starting with theory and trying to make it work – it never will, at least not consistently and certainly not against anyone good. If you start with the fight and see what works as a starting point, no one would be wasting their time doing this stuff.
But nice for 2 16 year old kids and nicer that the school trains somewhat realistically against grapplers
He did at least as well, if not better, than most grown-ups in WCK would do.
[QUOTE=k gledhill;783267]Im in agreement with dr leungjohn & liddel here…both the distance and angles ??
The exercise Seung -ma x Toi -ma in early chisao deals with this very important aspect of developing a natural instinct to angle while maintaining our maximum force relative to an arm/body …the guy should have delivered body behind a punch at precisely the time he didnt
many hit with arms, after the body takes them to their destination [ chisao trains this mistake out] …when they arrive they arent were they need to be [chisao one checks the stages, angles, elbows in ] , they have gone a stop to far on the train…[ chisao , too close to deliver force…] chisao contains a simple method / process to use the SLT & Chum Kil…not to stick to arms either
let the arms find you while you strike
seung ma x toi ma will cure this…its no guarantee but it isolates the primetime point of maximizing ones ability to attack an attack / punch a punch with both correctly timed leg force behind an extending fist/palm…our inch punches test or ‘proves’ this point of contact in seung ma toi ma…can you get that inch punch distance but deliver it with 2 ft body mass timing proportionate to your body weight and the speed of the incoming head all in one point ?
I feel like Im saying what WSL said in a quote , chisao isnt to tie your opponent up or learn to stick endlessly to their arms..its how to deliver the force of a combined body arm strike while maintaining a tactical flanking action constantly…aka what to do once you arrive in the guys face / space you dont want to be moving stright in or straight back…wrong thinking to start never mind what a boxer will or might do …anyone will throw an over arm hook a school kid in the playground will do this, so why do so many vt guys do it “charge” ! like the light brigade, it may be your last…
http://www.victorianweb.org/history/crimea/chargelb.html[/QUOTE]
Lovely theory. Useless, but lovely.
Why is it we never get people saying “you know, when I fight with decent MMA fighters, I’ve found this and that works really well” (experience talking) but always get people – the theoretical nonfighters – saying “Wong said to do this or that” or “my theory tells me to do this or that” (theory talking)? As Hawkins said, “theory is great but can you do it.” If you believe this will work, go visit a good MMA gym and see for yourself. Take your camcorder to show us all how great your theory really is.
Show me one video where someone can use this “entry technique” against someone with decent skills in 100% sparring and maintain the “outside line”.
And what you’ll argue against some other part of the technique. What good is a video if you can’t understand the principle. You want to make this harder than it needs to be the raised leg guards against a kick before moving forward similar to a forward guard hand. If you have seen Tony Jaa raise his knee while practising you have seen the same raised MT knee as TWC so once again Terence you are wrong but nothing new there.