traditional arts such as Karate, TKD, trad. CMA, Judo, Jujitsu, Wrestling, Wing Chun, Western Boxing, Fencing, Savate and Thai Boxing. Why is JKD dependent on these other arts to give it techniques to use, and not the other way around?
What new thing outside of the concepts, which are not that new at all, has JKD come up with?
Freedom
The freedom to use anything that works, from any style, and not be tied down to ways of tradional thinking.
K. Mark Hoover
added nothing
Freedom to take whats good? Like Shaolin did for hundreds of years? Like Wang Long did?
The only reason traditional teachers discourage cross training is because you have to know what the rules are before you can bend them and play with them. Traditional teachers want to spare you from becoming that first shaolin monk to kick and punch and not have to start from scratch.
Would you learn only 3rd grade math and then try to figure out physics? YOu could, it would truley be “yours” but you would have to be a genious to make it as far as your college physics student.
JKD is a way of self-evaluation, and above all personal expression. Everyone wants to use what works, but only the bravest of people want to know exactly why they do what they do.
(hey it’s late, I can talk like a fortune cookie if I want to)
Ryu
judo legend, Masahiko Kimura
I’ve never heard anyone in JKD claim to have created something new. Just to reclaim something lost. Bruce Lee apparently perceived a lack of inquiry on the part of martial arts students. They were accepting what they were told wholesale.
The martial arts climate today has changed pretty dramatically from the 60s, I suspect. (Though, at 29 years old, I obviously don’t know first hand.) So perhaps nothing in JKD strikes us as particularly noteworthy now. But that’s out of context. JKD was a reaction to martial arts as Bruce Lee experienced them. To judge that call by a mindset in 2001 is a bit flawed.
To my mind, any art can be used to “find yourself” or “discover the truth” or whatever. But he perceived a need and addressed it. I don’t think you can fault the man for that.
As for JKD today, well obviously its practitioners are, to a degree, going to make it sound like the Second Coming. That’s advertising. Even those teachers that aren’t trying to sell something are still hoping to promote their art. As are the traditionalists. (Man, I hate those designations.)
Stuart
MMA is a good example of what JKD is really about IMO. The idea of aliveness is crucial… being a complete fighter capable in all ranges, not limited by ‘traditional’ boundaries, and encouraging freedom of thought, experimentation and healthy skepticism.
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-WatchmanI’d agree.
But I think a lot of traditionalists are using a more inquiry-based model now too. Testing conclusions in sparring, question their ability to handle various other styles. Addressing the issues of “reality.”
I suspect that we, as a community, are so much more used to thinking the way Bruce Lee envisioned that what he said is now less dramatic to us.
Stuart
BRUCE LEE…he made a mistake naming his way of fighting JKD! Now everyone thinks JKD is some awesome fighting system…not true…it’s HIS personal expersion of fighting…take for example…MUHAMMAD ALI and JOE FRAZIER…both learned the art of boxing…but both have different ways of expressing the style…MUHAMMAD uses his long range techs and JOE uses more of a body shot style…
A
I think he meant JKD as an idea not a style… alot of people have trouble making the distinction (and some people exploit it).
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-WatchmanJKD is a Martial Arts concept. Its not really an art on its own. That is why it is dependent on other arts.
Underaged Drunken Monkey
JKD is the Shaolin of people who claim they know better.
“MMA is a good example of what JKD is really about IMO. The idea of aliveness is crucial… being a complete fighter capable in all ranges, not limited by ‘traditional’ boundaries, and encouraging freedom of thought, experimentation and healthy skepticism”
Sounds like you’re talking about Tai Chi Chuan. Tai Chi Chuan is everything JKD and all the other so-called modern combative systems are trying to be and much, much more.
Tai Chi Chuan is the original “mixed martial art”
No “wazoo kung fu” in TCC.
Not subject to debate.
“Lurkers need not reply”
The truth shall be known!
isnt jkd just a philosophy i dunno
it seems like it to me
Evil grows deep in shallow Minds
>>Sounds like you’re talking about Tai Chi Chuan<<
No, sorry. Good guess though! 
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-WatchmanBTW, what is “wazoo kung fu”?
"It's not really NHB because they won't let me bring a platoon of Navy SEAL's with Blackhawk fire support into the ring!"
-WatchmanRealy then when was the last time anyone saw a Tai Chi Chuan school practice groundfighting? :rolleyes:
Where are the Tai Chi Chuan groundfighting skills and concepts to fill out all of the ranges?
No matter what you practice if you do not get rid of your ego’s and streamline your self defense methods for the current street enviroment than you are cutting yourself short and giving yourself a disadvantage from the get go.
There are a lot of street-focused hybrids and instructors out there who are not JKD organization based but have awoke to what the real needs are in self defense, the needs of a easy to retain system and an easy to execute system with brutal no fuss techniques and concepts that can be used by a wide varity of bodytypes and ages with miminal tool conditioning.
TenShindo, Holifield and H.C.S.I, Eric Wolfe and Defendo, Marc Animal MacYoung, Peyton Quinn, Tony Blauer, John Karry and American Combatives, Hock and Scientific Fighting Congress, Geoff Thompson, Sammy Franco, Michael Janich and others.
Regards
>>>>>BTW, what is “wazoo kung fu”?<<<<<
I don’t know, but it sounds cool. Where do I sign up?!
“Realy then when was the last time anyone saw a Tai Chi Chuan school practice groundfighting?”
-This afternoon.
“Where are the Tai Chi Chuan groundfighting skills and concepts to fill out all of the ranges?”
-TCC isn’t concerned with so-called ranges. It goes where the fight takes it. All the jings can be trained for the ground. Elbow-strikes, shoulder-strikes/head-butts, Press, Push, Ward-off, Pull-down, Roll-back, Split. No exceptions.
“No matter what you practice if you do not get rid of your ego’s and streamline your self defense methods for the current street enviroment than you are cutting yourself short and giving yourself a disadvantage from the get go”
-Agreed 100%.
“There are a lot of street-focused hybrids and instructors out there who are not JKD organization based but have awoke to what the real needs are in self defense, the needs of a easy to retain system and an easy to execute system with brutal no fuss techniques and concepts that can be used by a wide varity of bodytypes and ages with miminal tool conditioning”
-Yes! TCC.
“TenShindo, Holifield and H.C.S.I, Eric Wolfe and Defendo, Marc Animal MacYoung, Peyton Quinn, Tony Blauer, John Karry and American Combatives, Hock and Scientific Fighting Congress, Geoff Thompson, Sammy Franco, Michael Janich and others”
-With all due respect, they have nothing on TCC.
“wazoo kung fu” is quoting one the gentlemen you listed.
Please, give me a break.
TCC has become the TKD of the CMA community. Out of all the random people I have ever talked to, the Tai Chi Chuan classes I have ever seen and Tai Chi Chuan players who work with the combative aspects of the style I have never run across anyone who pushed so much bs.
I mentioned some of the TOP street self defense teachers in the world in that one paragraph.
I have nothing agasint TCC or any other traditional art but when people start pushing off this type of 100% complete ego crap with that kind of track record…without ever have trained at all of the places and instructors listed…well that answers my question right there.
I am not saying that Tai Chi Chuan players may not practice going to the ground but if you found a school that did cover that combat range they would be very few and far between and not very skilled when compared to those people who study each range with a scientific fevor.
I am just not buying it. Sorry I will stick with what I know works and what is reality.
Regards
YAWN
Wow. Another thread that has degenerated into a “my style is better than yours” argument.
I never expected this to happen. :rolleyes:
K. Mark Hoover