I lost the magic of kung fu

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Shaolin Kung Fu
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I think I lost something along the way

People have read my less than flattering accounts of studying Kung Fu at the Shaolin Temple, as well as my humorus stories about studying and fighting in Taiwan.

It is clear that I have dedicated myself to fighting, rather than to art. I trained and fought in thailand, which is just a huge gladiator academy.

now i am making kung fu movies in cambodia. in addition to my training for the movies, i just signed to fight (boxing) profesionally here in cambodia. there is a new foreign trainer here who is arranging title fights with WBC or one of the big leagues in USA. and i will probaly have a big televised fight in september (78 kg).

now that i am boxing again, the first good (fighting) training i have had since coming to asia, i think my opinion on fighting and kung fu is changing.

i love the boxing and fighting.

but maybe there is a place for the art as well.

when i was elevn or twelve years old, i believed in the magic of kung fu. i believed in the art. i thought it was something sacred and holy, and every night i said a prayer of thanks that i was being blessed with an opportuinity to learn these secrets, which had been passed down through teh ages, by generations of masters.

today, when i was supposed to be writing an article, I stumbled on to a website devoted to the TV show, KUNG FU.

Cain to his master: Old man, how is it that you can hear so much?
Master: Young student, how is it that you cannot?

re-reading all of those great philosophical quotes, i remembered why i began studying kung fu in the first place.

for the hour or so that it took me to read everything on the site, it was as if i had become a small kid again, and my belief in the mystery of kung fu was there. It reminded me why i began studying kung fu, and why I continued even when I showed no real aptitude for sports in general. It reminded me why I used to believe that every day of training brought me closer to enlightenment, and why I couldn’t sleep at night, dreaming of my next training session, and of some day going to the shaolin temple, for real.

But why have I never found that in asia, not even for a second? was it because I was too proud? was I punching when I should have been listening?

But if it is me, why do I not know a single foreigner who ever found that wonder and magic in China and Taiwan?

I found the Thais and Cambodians refreshing, because at least they didn’t pretend to have magic.

i’m not sure what that is worth. but i wanted to share. and if anyone has a constructive comment or even an insult, I’d be glad to listen.

did anyone else watch that show religiously as a kid? and, if so, did you experience disalusionment when you found that real Kung fu did not match Quai Chang Cains experience?

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good post.

Is this antonio? if so, I liked your articles man.

my view? well ok. :stuck_out_tongue:

Training to attain kungfu is a deeply personal path in my opinion regardless of where geographically you undertake the path.

It doesn’t matter if your teacher is western or eastern, it matters that you receive correct instruction. It matters that you maintain mindfulness in your practice.

No one can give you kungfu and no one can offer you a better way. All you can do is walk the path. That will sometimes lead you to the fighting aspects and other times will lead you to the art aspect. IN the end, it is a holistic approach that is required.

In youth, the fighting aspect will always hold more attraction it seems, but with age and experience you will look more for the other benefits.

It is quite recent the whole fixation amongst martial artists with getting to the proving grounds and leaving a mark, but in my opinion, this is a false path when regarded as the main objective and the art is lost if you stick to this although not entirely.

Fighting arts are honed in the forge of competition, but is kungfu just a fighting art or a living art? Isn’t a fight a part of living afterall? What about all the other aspects of kungfu practice? The peace of mind, the awareness of your surroundings, the personal character development that comes with wins and losses, and so on.

Healthful practice is part of it too. Do the Chinese have it moreso than the west? I think it is not about geography or culture and it is a much more personal thing to seek and attain kungfu, afterall, if was geographical or cultural then we would expect an entire nation of kungfu masters in a given ethnicity. Which we know isn’t true.

Do things because you enjoy doing them. If you love the practice, you will refine it into an artform that you can express in many degrees. Then you’ll have kungfu in what you do.

cheers

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did anyone else watch that show religiously as a kid? and, if so, did you experience disalusionment when you found that real Kung fu did not match Quai Chang Cains experience?
I do believe my kung fu experience surpasses that of Caines. Find the root of your disallusion and release it and regain your focus.

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I do believe my kung fu experience surpasses that of Caines. Find the root of your disallusion and release it and regain your focus

sig taggable gold.

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dude…that is where the magic lays…in the fact that these awesome folks ( such as yourself), continue through the unglamorous bs and soldier on to produce something glittery for others to share…it’s much like modelling…in reality, the glam is the result of a whole buncha unglam hard-slog, but it’s magic that there are folks, very rare and dedicated individuals, who foresake so much to produce a fantastical show…

as westerners sometimes it sucks out here, but hang in there because, even here you’re semi-famous and people are waiting to hear what you’re up to next…

cheers BM

looking frwd to viewing your latest :wink:

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I feel you, man. I too, was disallusioned to find out that every teacher wasn’t some spiritually elevated being like Master Po, or Master Kan. Imagine my dismay when I learned that many Sifus were members of Triads. Funny. One of the best teachers who brought the best out of me, who can look at my technique and make one comment and cause a dramatic improvement, who took me from a two-year losing streak, to first place championships, and this guy went from marrige to marrige, cheating, drinking, cocaine, you name it. His whole life was a total shambles, but he could teach. He taught me how to build champions. Develop an eye for detail, find that spirit and bring it out. Funny.
I also had the dream of meeting the old man in the take-out place who would take me under his wing. The only thing I learned is how to wrap dumplings. (my dumpling Kung-Fu is great!)
Then..THEN to learn that there are no monks, that the real monks are dead and gone, and thet Shaolin has been made into a tourist trap, that the monks there are wu-shu performers, who know no real application. That san-da has become accepted in China,worse than here in the USA, which means that even in China, they can’t find people who can teach the real deal, and it is dying. Just kickboxing, which no doubt is great, but it is not kung-Fu.
Ok, now the good news. There ARE people who still teach real Kung-Fu, real applications, and teach real fighting with it, not kick/punch. There are Tai-Ch’i, Hsing-Yi, Ba-Kua,Hung-Ga,Wing Chun,Bak-Mei. Southern Praying Mantis schools, and others who fight with their Kung-Fu. You have to look, search, dig through alot of dirt to find gold. But it IS out there. (there ain’t alot of it, but it’s out there.)

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i persoinally hated the series kung fu. i loved watching the old shaw brothers movies. when you tlak about the amgic, i never expect to be able to do it. some things are just lost in time or i dont have time to practice that hard. did i want to be able to do some of the stuff the shaolin monks do? yes i did, can i achieve some of that stuff now? yes i can. i saw the kung fu “magic” die in the old days. does it still exist? yeah somewhere maybe. am i disapointed i wasnt able to achieve that? no not at all, its not my purpose. do i want to become a fighter that can take out 10 guys at once in the movies, yeah i would love too. but is it possible? most likely not. (yet my sihing got jumped by 8 gangsters in china and didnt get hit, he attacked two while they were charging at them and got away.) so for me there still is a magic in kung fu i still believe in. and i am not disapointed at all.

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I lost something along the way

Wow! I want to thank all of you folks for writing in. I really appreciate it. Is anyone else writing from over seas? Or has anyone else studied over seas?

I guess the answer is, as many of you said, we each have to find our path, for ourselves. our unique path will be different from someone else’s path. and only we can know when we have found it.

if i knew what the end result was supposed to be like, I would fidn it easier to work toward that goal.

my movie friends came down to my boxing training today. they trained about two and a half minutes and then quit. once again, my opinion of kung fu dropped about a hundred points. these guys can all jump in the air, spin,a nd kick three times before landing. but they can’t complete a single round of boxing training. that tells me they have no heart. if that is the case, how could I respect them? and how could they ever win a fight?

I have lived in monasteries in china and thailand. I am seriously considering going to live in a monastery here, in cambodia. i like the buddhism here quite a lot. and my other friends, the ones who are or have been monks, are very peaceful. I would like to find that kind of peace. but at the same time i fight…

My movie friends will be going to train in beijing for several month, and i am considering going with them, and giving china another shot, or maybe going some place in chian where few people go, like Wu Dong, which has much less commercialism than henan.

copuld some of you folks tell me why you study kung fu?

does anyone get peace from kung fu?

have any of you been able to reconcile fighting and peace? (please, when you answer, answer from experience, not from a book. I’ve also read the books.)

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I always saw other people who were training martial arts, and yes “Kung Fu” on TV and kung fu movies from Asia, and felt like they had special skills that “normal” people didn’t have! And that to become skilled in martial arts was an achievement that distinguished people. Especially kung fu, it seemed mysterious and mystical to the outside observer.
The actualization of starting martial training arose in me, from not having gotten any fighting instruction at all as a kid & being kind of a doormat. My Dad’s a pacifist, or he was then anyway. Finally as an adult I recognized the need to be able to define my own personal boundaries to others when necessary.
It has been really liberating.
I spent time in some schools where the curriculum was more superficial than what I need, but have come to find a good teacher & I feel like kung fu is a huge subject and worthy of a lifetime of investigation.
Mr G, don’t you feel like it has been worthwhile overall, your martial arts journey? Your experience is extensive. Surely you found treasures here and there?
yr frnd, B_d

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Hey Antonio

I knocked off a quick reply when you emailed me this privately, but I’ll recap that a little for the benefit of this thread.

To me, the Kung Fu TV series was a minstral show. I was already studying martial arts at the time, although it was Judo and Shotokan. To see Carradine, who had no martial skill, with his eyes tied back, playing a Shaolin monk, well, that was messed up. It was like Al Jolson playing Shaka Zulu. That being said, the show was extremely significant in the cultural exchange between China and the USA. Today, the term ‘grasshopper’ is set in the common American vernacular, but you got to say it making squinty ***** eyes. Also the philosophy was largely derivative, and I’ve read the originals, so I have mixed feeling about the series. It never set me up for any disappointment, because from the onset, I could see through its delusions.

Reconciling fighting and peace should be easy on your level. You’ve lived in temples. Meditate on the guardian statues. In Buddhism, meditate on the door guards, Wei To and the Manjushri. At Shaolin, meditate on Jinnaluo. The answers are right there before you.

As for finding peace, I’ve found moments of peace. I haven’t been able to sustain them. But I attained them through my practice, so I keep practicing in hopes of attaining some more.

I don’t know why I practice any more exactly - many reasons. It’s fun. It’s my living. It keeps me out of trouble and in some semblence of health. I like it. I meet a lot of interesting people through it. Lots of reasons.

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My experience…

Hello,

Great thread BMonk.

Why do I study kung fu?

Considering your background you might understand my take on this… The simplest answer would be “because I choose to do so”. We could go round and round as to the reasons why people “do it” but that would give meaning to it, ultimately meaning does not matter. Giving meaning to something doesn’t really explain “why I do it”, because my meanings, your meanings and their meanings are all different. What matters, is that they choose to do it, and they can attach any meaning they want to it (if they want to bind themselves emotionally to it), as you may attach any meaning you want to your practice (or anything). What should matter is the experience that we have due to the decision we make (but you probably know that).

Have I been able to reconcile fighting and peace?

I don’t feel any need to reconcile the two. I found that by fighting I was able to come to terms with things such as fear, hatred, anger, pride, pain, agony, joy and happiness (to name a few). Once I came to terms with these things I can now say that my life has had less and less “interference”. Because I came face-to-face with many of my inner “demons” I can now understand them (sometimes I continue to work on understanding some of them) and I am moving on. Fighting was/is a means to understand my true self, and through that I have found a form of “peace”… not eternal… not yet at least.

Then again you might have a completely different perception of what “peace” and “fighting” are than I do…

:slight_smile:

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I practice kung fu because I enjoy it, and because I feel a great deal of loyalty to my teacher since he has invested so much time in teaching me.

How do I reconcile fighting with peace? For me it works on several levels. First, fighting taught me how to face fear and deal with it (to a certain degree anyway). In learning to do that I found that it made my life in general easier - so much of our negative emotions stem from fear.

Secondly, I gradually developed the mindset that I was learning the fighting arts not only for myself, but for others as well. Whether that meant to be able to fight for those who cannot, or whether it was to keep the art alive so that future generations can also enjoy the art is irrelevant. The point is that the reason for doing it is not purely a selfish one.

And I guess the third point is that learning and training in the fighting arts has given me some truly amazing experiences and gathered a fantastic group of friends around me. :slight_smile:

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originally posted by TenTigers
There ARE people who still teach real Kung-Fu, real applications, and teach real fighting with it, not kick/punch. There are Tai-Ch’i, Hsing-Yi, Ba-Kua,Hung-Ga,Wing Chun,Bak-Mei. Southern Praying Mantis schools, and others who fight with their Kung-Fu. You have to look, search, dig through alot of dirt to find gold. But it IS out there. (there ain’t alot of it, but it’s out there.)
In full agreement with you TenTigers and no doubt there is a movement afoot to Return Shaolin to China all the necessary action in the proper time and place will need to occur but it will occur the only question for those who would appreciate such an endeavor is will you know Shaolin when you experience it yourself.

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these guys can all jump in the air, spin,a nd kick three times before landing. but they can’t complete a single round of boxing training.

well, the training is different from what they have been doing, but i bet they could catch on quick if they had interest in it more.

I went through this too. Did 7 years of trad training in cma then over the last 4 have been doing more mixed stuff and at first I wasn’t used to the different type of training. It took a few sessions to get in the groove, current result is I now train both and enjoy both.

anyway…just saying

cheers

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I lost somethig along the way

Thanks again, ten tigers, gene, everyone had excellent points.

Gene mentioned about meditation. In shaolin, my Sifu was Xi Hung Fu, and we were responsible for the first stupa, on the left hand side, as you entered through the main gate. you walked past that silly theater, where they did the shaolin show, (which i have never seen), through the second big gate, and it was the next little building on the left. my training brother miao hai and i used to go there in the morning, sweep the floor, do our prayers, and then he would have me hold stances, for hours, while he rang the gong for the tourists who came to pray.

while i was hoilding stances, of course, i would meditate. but i often got distracted by the fact that miao hai would steal the money from the offering bowl.

in thailand, my monk, Pra Kru Ba, made us meditate for hours and hours. but he always instructed us to meditate on fighting. he said that ancient muay thai masters from the past would come and train him while he meditated.

I never found any peaec in either of those meditations.

my friends in taiwan who were monks were very peaceful. but they had very little martial arts training. and my friends in here in cambodia who are or were monks are the most peaceful people i have ever seen. they too have had very little martial arts training. one of their chriticisms of thailand is that the monks meditate about fighting. i dont think the practice of meditating about fighting is very wide spread in thailand. but the monks here see that as contrary to achiving peace.

for those of you who meditate, what do you meditate on? how does that relate to the rets of your practice of kung fu? and do you ever steal the money from the offering bowl?

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I might free-load if absolutely essential, but I’d make up for it in community contribution..no.not a theif.bjt you have to bear in mind, that even monks are developing souls and people…kinda cute really…

I train gongfu because it’s one of the most effective expressions of myself ( aside from dancing and singing…entertainer extroaordinare turned ch’an buddhist ;))…fighting or the abilty to is a glorious reprecussion…it’s not the end but it is a bonus.there’s a cretain confidence that comes from being able to do that that you just can’t find elsewhere…

I know nothing else but to move my body .or why I am alive…to veg??.I don’t think so…

I daily take time out to contemplate and or meditate, and when I do, firt it’s about what alis or troubles me, or if it’s too too much, I just zone out and concentrate on innocnce and clarity of purpose.or alternately, I just blank out and empty my mind mediatating on building qi and identifying where the deficit lays and what thoughts I need to cultivate to grant me peace within myself…then, if that’s all saidand done, I mediate on the universe and see time before , time present and time to come…I think about karmic relations and my true place progressively in the spanse of time…this is a seroious buddhist concept and way of thinking, and may not be for everyone…but it brings me peace like nothing else does…

I wish you well Antonio, stregnth, perserverance, confidence and serenity be yours always…

BL

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so brooklyn monk how did you become a movie star overseas?

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stealing offerings…

I’ve never stole offerings. In fact, I do a lot of volunteer work for a Free Clinic and one of my jobs is to gather donations. But stealing donations is not unheard of - in fact, we recently had a tragic embezzlement case at the Clinic, on the order $750,000 to a million. Does that make me disgusted with the Clinic? Of course not. Quite the opposite, it makes me more commited. The clinic represents philsophies that I truly beleive in. Just because there are some challenged individuals alongside me there, some bad apples, that does not destroy what it represents to me. If anything, it firms up my resolve.

With monks, we often idolise them as some perfected being, but actually it’s quite the opposite. These are people who left society. Some left it for religious reasons, but many left because they have issues with society. Many are working to change. That’s what Shaolin is - it’s a furnace to burn off samsara. Many people get toasted in that fire and never make it. Some flee. Some struggle. Some, like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, walk through the fire and never get burned.

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Gene wrote:
“To me, the Kung Fu TV series was a minstral show. . . . playing a Shaolin monk, well, that was messed up. That being said, the show was extremely significant in the cultural exchange between China and the USA.”
…
I would add, that the 1972 television series “Kung Fu” was instrumental and pivotal in the chain of events that led to PRC desire to rebuild Shaolin. It was this popular television series that made term “Shaolin” famous in the west and part of western vernacular. You could say it is direct and indirect driving force behind the long list of successful marketing projects since.

r.

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I doubt that

To the best of my knowledge, the Kung Fu TV series never played in PRC. Even now, only a very few of the monks even konw what you’re talking about if your reference that series. The first time that Abbot Yongxin ever heard of the series was when Carradine himself went to Shaolin and showed him an episode for his documentary. You can see Yongxin’s expression when he first views in that documentary, and he looks puzzled but amuzed.

I would attribute the Shaw brothers movies and of course, Jet Li’s Shaolin Temple to the reconstruction of Shaolin, but I don’t think that Carradine’s series had any significant effect at all.