How does a smaller or weaker guy fight with a taller or stronger?
utilizing tai chi skills…LOL
Define!
when you say weaker and stronger how are you defining that? Weaker or stronger what? Internally?Externally? Words have a funny way of making things unclear.
get stronger
Clarification…
How does a short person fight with a tall person. Obviously the tall person has the advantage of reach. Also, say there is a guy who is physically stronger and one guy who is weaker… How does the shorter guy with less reach or the weaker guy with no power beat a taller or stronger guy?
Do you get my question now? I know I worded it too simply before.
“Get stronger”
This is very good advice maybe not in the way it was posted.
You don’t fight against the strengths of the other; you utilize the skill and understanding based on your own training.
This is where styles really come into play. Look at how they are structured and the basic premise of the style. All styles have a yielding and ridged applications it’s the nature of our bodies. The styles that tend to use the body and build reactions into it are for the most part called external. Yes, they do involve the mind but the main point is to overcome the others body using training that enhances the physical part of their body.
Other styles work more against the mind, tai chi being one of them. These styles are not easy to understand and take a while to really be able to do it. Why?
I think because there is so much to relearn, most of which is not intuitive to most people. These styles tend to be labeled internal, much of the training is on learning how to use, and sense the different aspects of the mind as well as defining a new way to move the body.
This is called using active awareness verses trained reflexes, the training is very different. IMHO many people have a hard time with it, they are unwilling to give up the idea of strength and overcoming the other.
By getting stronger. 
Greetings…
Everyone has vulnerabilities.. Study anatomy, Chinese Medical theories regarding energy channels (meridians), and Tai Chi applications.. Personally, i incorporate Chin Na into Tai Chi applications.. Mostly, though, it depends on “intent” and resolve to manifest your intent into your reality.. If you “intend” to understand Tai Chi to its depths, then you will also need the resolve to see that process through to its ultimate reward, no fear..
Patience is the issue, training is the tool, intent is the power of the spirit, resolve is the power of the flesh.. Tai Chi is is the reward..
Foremost, the ability to negotiate a peaceful alternative to conflict is superior to even the greatest Martial Art (IMHO).. Oh, and Tai Chi is a great negotiating tool.. careful posturing and tactical awareness tends to disarm most agressors before things get out of control.. Even the relaxed nature of a Tai Chi player is disconcerting to a would-be troublemaker..
Be well..
rip his ears off they look mare attached than they are
Narf Narf
Eight _Triagram_Boxer
As sMA we are taught to walk a way from a fight but understanding the consequences sometimes that is not always the case. In that case, if you are the shorter guy I would fight with “intent”. When I say that I mean being in a certain frame of mind, killer mode. You are no longer the nice, humble and quiet person you always purvey. You are going to kick A_s. But I agree with TaiChiBob learning/knowing anatomy and where to strike will assist you. You have heard the saying, “The bigger they are the harder they fall”. It’s true.
Damian
Im just gonna go the dead honest route
It depends totaly on there level of skill.
I have two guys i train with pretty reguarly and we do a fair amount of sparring and contact work.
One is much taller than me and has a background of Wing Chun plus has been studying internals for a while.
One ive posted about before (thunder palm incident) and he is MUCH larger than me both in hieght and in build.
I can do pretty well against the tall WC guy but his range can definately be an advantage. Particualy considering his footwork is fast and he loves to work the outside gate.
The other guy can simply wipe the floor with me at any time he pleases. He is MUCH more powerfull than me and is simply more skilled.
To be brutal… IME being larger and well trained internaly is actualy a LARGE advantage. I mean lets be totaly honest for a moment. We generate power by whipping our bodys and allowing the force to flow from relaxed muscles from the floor to the point of impact. If someone is larger and also has this skill they simply have much more to hit with.
So to break it down…
With the taller guy i try to stay almost hip to hip and stop him at the source, i stick to him like glue and always avoid letting him get away from me and forcing me to chase him, which is very ineffective considering his range and speed.
The other guy i use the opposite tactic, i stay small and supple as hell and always attempt to work his back. If i get to close im blown back out so i tend to try and stay just out of reach but always so i can slip in easily.
Look at Yang Chen Fu, he was as big as an elephant is his older days and he could throw people accross the room. He was unbeatable in push hands, do you REALLY think this was all ‘chi’?
My honest belief is internal is no different to external in this respect, the more you have the more you hit with. If your unfortuate enough to have to fight someone who is both your match in skill AND much larger than you are - i would not be counting on comming out unscathed.
You can always get lucky but trust me when i say my large parter usualy has me sprawling all over the room. In a real fight he could simply wear my hit and exchange it for one that would instantly flaw me.
Hmmm
Totally disagree with you about Yang Cheng fu. Also with your idea about large bodies generating more Jin cos thats absolute rubbish. Smaller people like Cheng Man Ching was famed for his skill in being able to generate large capacities of Jin on bigger opponents than himself. Many of his students (the Taiwanese ones!!) replicated this too. Their size had nothing to do with the amount of Jin they issued. If that is an external trait then you have proved yourself wrong by saying that internal and external arts are the same.
I agree being well trained internally is a large factor in sucess, but being large is rubbish, it corresponds to nothing at all. I routinely trounce a class mate of mine who is 3 stone heavier and almost a foot taller than me. His body size is not the issue. Nor is anyone elses. If you beleive this then I would seriously query your understanding and experience of internal training.
Actually, if you get 2 people with identical skills (internal, external or whatever), but one is 150 lbs and the other guy is 250 lbs, chances are that the 250 lb guy will usually win. Either that, the 150 lb guy has to work a lot harder to win.
The equality of skill matters far less then the equality of mental strength and will. The only power you will ever truly posses is willpower, and he who posseses more is more likely to survive conflict.
Jon,
I too think that you have some confusion in this. Size has nothing to do with it, nor strength or speed.
This is the allure of real IMA but I feel few people ever really reach it. They are to busy fighting. this is why there seems to be what i would say is confuison over training methods and uses.
most people on this bbs from what i read base much of their ideas and training on what i would consider extranle practices.
K, I think the whole point is that if you operate from the same ideas as the other(streanght, speed and power) then what you talk about matters. IMA is outside of this again I don’t think many people really get it. At lest this has been my exprince.
really depends on what your after i suppose. i don’t say better i just say they are very differnt ideas. as always the one who trains and really undestands his/her art should have the advantage.
Hi,
“How does one deal with someone who is stronger?” Fwiw, train so that the opponent’s strength won’t matter, and when you fight, "don’t worry about how strong he is. "
“How do you fight someone taller?” That’s no secret, in tcc or boxing, just get “closer.” If you’re courageous enough, get close enough so that you own (win) his center. Then, you can do what you want.
Just my worthless advice,
Respects,
Esteban
Inside fighting is the best method
Eight_Triagram_Boxer How does a smaller or weaker guy fight with a taller or stronger?
- Prepare Mentally(mindset) and adapt your strategy wisely.
- You must have coordination of external and internal and the execution of your fighting techniques must be quick. If you fight a big guy you should fight him hard and to the inside. You have to be on a big guy inside to smother his attacks so he can’t use his reach against you.(power)
If Your taller opponent is more skilled then you and stronger, then the best method is run as fast you can, so that you can live to fight another day. LOL:D
Repulsive Monkey
With all due repects, i have NO problem with anyone disagreeing with me or not seeing things in my way. I DO have a BIG problem with people simply calling me wrong and then failing to provide ay valid explanation.
Im socaratic in some respects and i REALLY dont care about what your ‘ideals’ are on fighting larger opponents. I also stated in plain english i was quite capable of mopping up my larger partner who is also not as skilled. The one who is better than me EASILY wipes me to the floor. IME if two people are a match in terms of skill then size and strength can become a very important factor.
If you would like to explain chi for me in a scientific way and use this same analogy to discribe how you issue power then i would LOVE to hear it.
Untill then forgive me if i go with basic science.
Force= MASS times Acceleration.
Hence due to pure physics the larger you are and there better your body mechanics the more force you can generate.
You say…
“Totally disagree with you about Yang Cheng fu.”
- Would you mind explaining this? Totaly disagreeing is pretty strong considering your not bringing any facts to the table.
“Smaller people like Cheng Man Ching was famed for his skill in being able to generate large capacities of Jin on bigger opponents than himself.”
- Irrelevent, my point is that if he was larger he would have generated even more. Its like a whip, the better your technique is the more you generate. The tougher and more refined your actual whip itself is, the more you generate.
“your idea about large bodies generating more Jin cos thats absolute rubbish.”
- Next time you use the terms ‘absolute rubbish’ to discribe something i have written please also take the time to actualy provide a REASON why you disagree.
“Their size had nothing to do with the amount of Jin they issued.”
- respectfully i say thats incorrect. Pure physics, force=mass times acceleration. There is no way around this…
If you have another analogy i would love to hear it.
“If that is an external trait then you have proved yourself wrong by saying that internal and external arts are the same”
- Actualy to me the only that makes an art ‘internal’ or ‘external’ is the region it comes from and the styles it shared co development with. Ever looked at our actual symbol for Bagua or Tai Chi? Notice that little black section in there? No such thing as a pure internal art.
“I agree being well trained internally is a large factor in sucess, but being large is rubbish, it corresponds to nothing at all.”
- Again please provide some direct evidence or factual basis for this claim? If not your just sprouting off dangerously uneduacated opinions which are actualy detrimental to most students development. Ego and over confidence are issues im sure you know this.
“I routinely trounce a class mate of mine who is 3 stone heavier and almost a foot taller than me. His body size is not the issue.”
- I do the same thing and stated it, what would happen if your partner was actualy the same skill level as you?
“If you beleive this then I would seriously query your understanding and experience of internal training.”
- That is a rude egotistical and outright disrepectfull thing to say. I would question whether you have actualy seriously tested your art at all let alone actualy thought about how to properly use it.
I dont enjoy responding to posts like this especialy not here, please next time at least give your argument a factual basis. Sifu says and chi explanations will get you sqaut with me.
If my Tai Chi teacher who has studied for fifty years and who’s linage actualy comes though YCF can explain power generation and body mechanic without resorting to ‘chi’ then i fail to see why anyone else shouldnt give it a go. His english is absolutely terrible so you have no excuse.
Bamboo Leaf
I would have to say i have the same sort of problems with your arguement that i do with monkeys. You have been at least polite and for that im thankfull but again you have not really provided a factual base. Only illuded to having some kind of higher knowledge that obviously i dont posses.
My point here is dead simple and others have stated it as well, skill is the main factor but being larger or taller is also an advantage. As is forcing your opponent to face into the sun or deliberately backing them into a corner.
There are many factors involved but to say that size and strength are not part of the equation is imho foolish.
My sifu is very small physicaly and can needless to say wipe the floor with any of us but he is a LOT more skilled. In similar skill levels size becomes a serious advantage. The other thing many neglect is that larger opponents are often well aware of this advantage and WILL use it to there favor.
I again relate back to simple science.
Force=mass times accleration. Vector and gravity can also have some effect but this is the basic truth.
If ANYBODY can provide a method for generating power which somehow gets around the need for the ‘mass’ factor of the equation i will be all ears.
Can we PLEASE however stick to the facts, or else im just gonna say that that big guy may also have good CHI and you can then deal with the fact he has more due to his increased size. Either way it doesnt matter.
We agree, my point is that it’s not your power it’s the ability to use their power.
with a 4 oz rope you can pull a 1000lb bull if it is attached to the right place.
This negates all ideas of being stronger, faster,.
The best guys that I have felt used my power to do what ever. This is the skill I talk about. With out real ting jing skill I think this is really very hard to understand.
Next time your sifu dose something to you, try this.
See if you can feel what is happing. My guess would be that it happens before you know it. Can you by just touching someone and using your intent make them lose their balance. The people I work with can.
This is where I’m coming from. IMHO the training for this and mind set is very different then those who think of blowing some one away with the dreaded fa-jing. Just not the same.
I don’t say better, I just say different.
how to beat a larger opponent…
Have you ever played jenga… remove the base and raise thier chi. then if you are smart, run and get help.