IMHO when it comes down to brass tax size matters.
No matter what kind of training you have it is all in the attributes. Bigger, taller, and stonger guys have the advantage over smaller faster guys.
I am not saying bigger will always win but size defintely gives you an advantage no matter if you like to hit or grapple.
I do not believe that a magical Martial Art can empower a smaller person to defeat a bigger person. In fact, that belief can cause more damage than good. A martial art can give a smaller person a better chance than without training. A bigger person with training, however can quickly use there size to their advantage and avoid where it can be a disadvantage.
A small person has the difficult task of exploiting openings left by a bigger person. It is even harder to create an opening especially if your opponents are trained.
If this were not true there would not be weapons. Weapons are the great equalizer.
I’m about 5 and a half feet tall and weigh about 135lbs. I was picked on a lot in school and eventually learned that sticking up for myself was a sure way to get hurt. As an adult I’ve found it much easier to avoid those unpleasant encounters than it was in high school but they still arise. I’m much more likely to leave a potential conflict and be mad about it later, but it can be hard on the old self-esteem not to stand up for myself.
One of the best part of taking martial arts is that is has given me more confidence but also helped me to see the foly of playing into macho pissing contests. I have been under the impression, however, that if I needed to I could defend myself physically. The more I read in this part of the forum, the less confidence I have in that. I know that having a smaller stature is a disadvantage, but I always believed that it could be overcome.
Are you suggesting that a smaller guy will always lose if the skill is equal, or are you saying that the smaller guy will always lose period unless he is fighting an idiot or gets lucky? I know there is a lot to be gained by studying MA besides fighting but if defending myself with it is not realistic, I feel like I’ve been lied to. I don’t have any plans to enter the UFC but I don’t feel like I should have to carry a knife or gun to be safe from garden variety bullies either.
I’m not saying I agree with your point of view, but I’ve never had to physically defend myself since I started taking martial arts (about five years ago) so I can’t absolutely say your wrong. I DO want to be sure I understand what you are saying however. Of course I am curious what others have to say. Is everybody who posts here a big guy?
Tiger (hopefully not in name only)
If you want to be great, you have to stop wanting and simply be.
I’m on the small side–5’7", 150 lbs. I guess my take on this is that, not considering skill level, there are certain physical attributes that are undeniable advantages–they are :height/reach, strength, speed, agility, and coordination. Clearly, the more of these you posess, the better. But, very few people have all of these in spades(—well, if you’re a hockey fan, Eric Lindros does ) I’m not sure you could definitely say that simply being big, without taking into account other factors, is a definite advantage. Would you say that Magic Johnson or Patrick Ewing, or, say a Sumo wrestler would be better equipped to be a fighter than Mike Tyson? But I agree a fast, coordinated, strong big guy is going to have a clear advantage over a fast, coordinated, small guy.
Can martial skill overcome this? I think it can, but the greater the physical differential, the greater the small guy’s skill level would have to be.
Having sheer muscular strength is always going to be an advantage. Having sheer muscular speed is always going to be an advantage. This is obvious.
Size, however, does not equate to these things.
If two completely unskilled fighters go up against one another, the larger of the two is likely to win.
But as you learn more, you start to understand that there are nearly an infinite number of things you can do in a fight.
Some of these things will give an advantage to smaller size.
Shorter people have a lower center of gravity. Having less maximum reach also means having less minimum reach - a five foot tall man can still elbow at a range where a six and a half footer can’t.
Most people who train to be large or are genetically large do not understand proper training principles and will be both slow and inflexible.
No matter what your size is, you should think of it as a challenge. Not because it worse than your opponent’s, but only because it is different.
After reading through all of the posts (including my own) again I think I may have misunderstood what Blur was saying.
I think what he is saying is that greater size is an advantage. Martial arts are not magic and thus cannot neutralize this advantage. A skilled martial artist of smaller stature will have his/her own advantage, but it in itself may not be enough to win.
I don’t think anybody would dispute the fact that being larger is an advantage, but I wouldn’t say that it is to the exclusion of other advantages. Certainly if a person is bigger, stronger, faster, and more determined, the advantages are likely to be overwhelming. Blur does NOT say that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the smaller person to win but he doesn’t seem to have any confidence in that outcome however. Of course the outcome is always comes down to circumstances beyond simple size vs. training in a real fight so it’s hard to calim in the end that size was the determining factor.
I will say one thing though. I’m not that big, but I’m hardly the smallest person in the world. Plenty of smaller women that I know could kick my ass if I decided I wanted to attack them on the street, because they really know what they are doing (and they don’t need a weapon to do it). Sure I could get lucky, but I wouldn’t want to find out.
Just my $.02 (I guess I’m up to $.04 now)
If you want to be great, you have to stop wanting and simply be.
[This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 02-20-2000).]
hmmm. I got to go with the size matters opinion on this one. I’m 6’1" and fairly big, though it isn’t all muscle! Although some techniques are easier for smaller, shorter people in general being bigger means you can hit harder for your level of skill, you have more reach, and your bones and muscles are thicker so you can stand more of an impact without being seriously hurt. I vividly remember working out with a 7’ footer in class a few times before he quit and I couldn’t even reach his body when he held me with his arms extended. Plus, even though he was skinny looking his arms and wrists were very thick compared to mine and that much harder to move or damage.
IMHO it’s also the short guys you got to look out for. They are the ones with something to prove and because they are insecure they are more vicious and more likely to pull a weapon. That’s one of the benies of MA training, people usually have much less of a need to prove something in general, although there are jerks everywhere.
Training and skill can make a big difference and equalize some or all of the size difference, but think about fighting a brown bear (800-1200 lbs) or an elephant without a weapon. Size matters baby.
Blur, read the article on San-Jitsu in Black Belt magazine’s march 2000 issue. Just being genetically bigger than your opponent doesn’t necessarily mean you will win. Properly executed TECHNIQUE by the smaller opponent will overcome sheer strength any day. You just have to alter your fighting style and mentality when fighting a larger, more powerful opponent.
I have to that size does matter greatly in sport, but as for real life, it doesn’t really. As for being 6 foot and bigger bones and muscles, I’m only 5’5 1/2 feet and my bones and muscle structure are thicker than most people I know except for the pro body builders in my gym. I’ve run up against Tongans (largest people in the world) way bigger than me and other guys shorter than me and it’s been as hard a fight with both.
I’ve seen a 6 foot + Samoan gets knocked out by a 5’9 guy in the middle of a rugby match with one hit.
Big or small, if you suck at fighting, then your gonna get beat down.
I agree that size can be a bonus. It can also mean nothing. If you fight similar to a larger opponent, chances are you will loose. Here is where size matters. If you fight intelligently against a larger opponent, then size differential can be minimized or neutralized.
When I sparred against larger opponents, I needed to hurt them to get my ‘point’ across. In other words, I packed a little more wallop than I normally would use in-kwoon or I would execute a technique to a location where size has a limited bearing. If I didn’t, it became quickly obvious that the larger guy would steam roll over me or otherwise have their way. This also helped confirm that I had the stops against a larger opponent. After all, that’s what we’re practising for when we spar. If you can not neutralize your opponent within the first encounter, especially against a larger opponent, the gigs up and you need to re-evaluate your training practises, or stop point fighting!
Realising ahead of time what you need to do will increase the odds of minimizing an opponent’s size advantage. You have practised this scenario in-kwoon and realise that as a smaller person, trading blows or targeting the head might be unwise choices- thicker cranium -or that you need to offset their movement by employing more lateral movements. Whatever. Having a strategy and some experience will bolster your commitment level when and if the time ever arises.
With a larger opponent, I know I must lay the hurt down quick, and that means using more specialized strikes, lest one of their sledgehammers connects. Here, size matters naturally. If you haven’t thought and practised about fighting larger opponents, then your five years of training haven’t been a waste, just incomplete.
Size does matter, but it matters in a way that effects how you will fight, not necessarily if you will win or not. The larger they are the bigger the hurt you need. Simple rule to train by. If you look at size in any other fashion, then you will be beat before you even began. Look at women, they are against larger and stronger opponent’s most of the time. Having increased skill can help offset, but it is how you employ that skill, and that gets down to thought and intelligence..not brute strength.
You raised some interesting questions. Size is something to be taken into consideration when facing an opponent. My old Savate instructor used to tell me “there are three ways to win a fight-superior conditioning, superior agression, or superior technique. The person who has a little of all will always win.”
There are numerous examples out there of where the “little guy” has come out on top. I’m sure there are mixed feelings from the members on this forum about the Ultimate Fighting Championship and I will gladly disscuss those in another post if the situation warrants. But for right now i will use a few examples to illustrate my point. I know that the UFC does not represent a real streetfight or bar brawl, but it is far more close to the real thing than any PKA tourney or strip-mall dojo sparring match.
THere have been numerous fights in the UFC where a smaller opponent has beaten a larger one. To begin with, there was the one that started it all Dan Severns vs. Royce Gracie. Gracie was outweighed and almost half as small as Severns, but won the grueling match anyway.
Then there was UFC 7 where the Brazilian Marco Ruas defeated the behemoth Paul “Polar Bear” Varelans. Ruas had no trouble in cutting down the larger Varelans to win the UFC 7 belt. He did so without even having to go to the mat once as was so common in the earlier UFC events.
Then there was Mark “The Hammer” Coleman vs. Maurice Smith(UFC XV or XVI). Coleman was a ripped, muscleman, and Smith-a smaller, less built boxer-kickboxer. Coleman could not keep Smith on the mat to head-butt him to death as he had so successfully done with previous opponents. and after a while, the sheer weight of his massive arms forced him to drop his gaurd allowing Smith to pummel his face with kicks and punches. These are but a few examples which I think best illustrate a well rounded fighter turning what some would percieve as a handicap into an opportunity.
Size matters, but so does stamina, speed, intelligence, and skill levels. Train to take advantage of the attributes you do have and don’t worry about the attributes you don’t have I think is the best advice to follow. Train, train, train to take advantage of your strong points.-ED
The reason why I decided to put the hurt on quick for larger sparring partners was because it dawned on me that I wasnÂ’t getting much out of the exercise if when I executed my strikes, the big guy just kept walking in. So, it wasnÂ’t so much that size mattered, but that neither one of us was receiving good training. He might have just as well worked on the bag if that was how I would have let things transpire. It forced him to become aware and exercise more technique and skill, instead of hunkering in on the good ship lollipop that was his size. In my opinion, it was sparring with intelligence, but..you might see it differently.
And, I do believe size matters for those who do not train or incorporate it into their routine intelligently. If you do train for it, then size does not matter as much or at all, as it simply gets to having a ‘person’ to dispatch, not a large nor small nor medium sized body.
Oh, heh heh..it wasnÂ’t my girlfriend, neither. My Momma told me! She didnÂ’t raise no fool.
Sure, being bigger gives you (mostly) the advantage of more strenght, being able to receive more punches.
But being smaller has the advantage of being quicker. Because the weight is less, you can move quicker.
But martial arts is not just about strength and speed, it also includes techniques, being creative and able to improve etc…
So one can say nothing about a fight between a larger and a smaller person just by looking at their sizes.
Being small does not automatically mean being fast.
The big guy has more mass to move but he has (potentially) more muscle to move it with.
Speed depends on allot of factors, size not really being one of the major ones.
JWT
Two guys, equal skill and similar style, one is 5’5 145lbs, the other is 6’0 190lbs. There is a VERY good chance that the little guy is going to lose. However, if the big one is less skilled the smaller guy could then have the advantage.
To tell you the truth the benefits of size are just psychological effects, at the end of the day.
Obviously if you take two untrained people the little guy will be scared of this big mother and he will be instantly demoralised. Other than that when two people are equally trained it doent make a difference. Being able to bench press 100 odd kilos does not mean being able to punch with that power, On the contrary larger people are usually very stiff from the weight lifting and the power does not flow. Strength is different from power.
Personally from my experience I am small compared to most people and i used to find it harder to spar with larger people only because their limbs where heavier but they were slow so this was easily overcome.
It can be said that you need the right tool for the right job.
I would not hammer a nail with a wrench and I wouldn’t turn a screw with a hammer.
A bigger fighter can be easier to defeat than and equal size or smaller opponent if one knows what and where to strike.
A strike to the chest on a smaller opponent will have more effect on a smaller opponent than a larger opponent clearly.
So the techniques to use against a larger opponent are different.
Keeping a large framed fighter moving will tire him.
Striking quickly to low areas (knees, ankles, groin) will equalize the situation quickly.
Increased force application to large muscled areas will work.
If a martial artist has really learned the principles of his art then he should be able to deal with any opponent of any size.
If ones skill is not complete and the understanding of body mechanics and ones own body type is not complete, then that is the only time when size and brute force will make a difference.
In Shaolin Kung Fu there is a lesson that goes beyond the words that state it and the lesson is:
“It takes 4 ounces to deflect 1000 pounds”
With proper practice and correct training there is no need to fear an altercation with someone because of their size.
Another lesson comes from american boxing,
“The bigger they are, the harder they fall”
This can also be true provided your training is complete and YOU understand YOURSELF.
clearly I am of the opinion that size has nothing to do with the outcome of a situation.
I never really thought about what it was like for the smaller guys( I’m 6’2" and about 230 lbs), I’ve sparred with smaller guys, a few heavier guys, but not to many bigger then me.
Until I had to spar with a guy who stood 6’6". I found it very awkward and frustrating. None of my usual techniques seemed to work very well, or felt weird. It seemed very strange to have to strike upwards rather than straight ahead or down. I earned a greater respect for all of the smaller opponents that I have sparred with over the years.(Especially the ones who kicked my butt..lol)
