I’m in shock. Will have to watch it several times again (I taped it) in order to give exact details…
BUT…
The Traditional Wing Chun Butterfly Sword form and techniques (ie.- applications against other weapons) that I’ve learned from William Cheung look almost exactly like some of the escrima, kali, and silat that was demoed on the show. Right down to some very specific details and fan sao (follow up moves). Including also footwork, figure eight slashes and thrusts, etc…Very speciifc stuff. I’m not talking generalities here.
Including even some unarmed techniques vs. unarmed punches coming in at you - including some finishes to such moves that end in armlocks and throws.
I don’t know what’s the chicken and what’s the egg (it was mentioned that Chinese martial arts had an influence on FMA - as was arts from other countries)…
BUT I’M JUST IN SHOCK RIGHT NOW ! :eek:
P.S.- Very different than the Butterfly Swords (both form and applications) I learned/saw during my Moy Yat days.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;782771]P.S.- Very different than the Butterfly Swords (both form and applications) I learned/saw during my Moy Yat days.[/QUOTE]
Fight and/or spar full contact with it and it will be even different.
There’s quite a bit of Chinese influence in the Filipino arts
No there is not. That is a untrue blanket statement and one that has never been proven. Name which style and how.
There are over 300 styles and substyles, of different fma based archipelago arts. The connection with the Spanish and with the Malay culture is very significant but I doubt any real connection with the chinese whatsoever.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;782771]I’m in shock. Will have to watch it several times again (I taped it) in order to give exact details…
BUT…
The Traditional Wing Chun Butterfly Sword form and techniques (ie.- applications against other weapons) that I’ve learned from William Cheung look almost exactly like some of the escrima, kali, and silat that was demoed on the show. Right down to some very specific details and fan sao (follow up moves). Including also footwork, figure eight slashes and thrusts, etc…Very speciifc stuff. I’m not talking generalities here.
Including even some unarmed techniques vs. unarmed punches coming in at you - including some finishes to such moves that end in armlocks and throws.
I don’t know what’s the chicken and what’s the egg (it was mentioned that Chinese martial arts had an influence on FMA - as was arts from other countries)…
BUT I’M JUST IN SHOCK RIGHT NOW ! :eek:
P.S.- Very different than the Butterfly Swords (both form and applications) I learned/saw during my Moy Yat days.[/QUOTE]
People get caught up in various martial arts (which is better, etc.) when in reality at their core all functional arts contain the same functional elements – they have to. There are only a limited number of things that work at stand up, at clinch, and on the ground, or with various weapons, at very high levels of intensity. All the various functional martial arts do is take these same elements and put them together slightly differently and/or emphasize different aspects.
That said, there is much in the FMAs, silat, and WCK that is not functional. And that’s because of the unrealistic practices of those methods – which produces unrealistic theory and application.
I liked the frontside head lock takedown they used, using the forearm as a lever between the neck and shoulder. Anyone seen this used like this before that can describe it?
Although it didn’t seem as effective against either of the hosts…or maybe the FMA guys were holding back?
I have to say, the MMA fighter host took a lot of punishment with his sticks, but he can man the hell up to take some vicious punishment. I wonder if the broken finger means the big guy’ll be taking some fights in the upcoming episodes, as I don’t see a show like this having taken a hiatus for rehab purposes.
[QUOTE=jesper;782830]You know what kind of wood they use for their sticks or if its slightly padded. They seemed able to take alot of punishment.[/QUOTE]
If you are talking about the Dog Brothers, the sticks are rattan and there is no padding.
[QUOTE=jesper;782830]You know what kind of wood they use for their sticks or if its slightly padded. They seemed able to take alot of punishment.[/QUOTE]
that last fight was a metal stick wrapped in foam rubber.
[QUOTE=Black Jack II;782843]No there is not. That is a untrue blanket statement. One that has never been proven. Name which style and how.
There are over 300 styles and substyles, of different fma based archipelago arts. The connection with the Spanish and with the Malay culture is very significant but I doubt any real connection with the chinese whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
Sorry man, that link is just that a bland link, it has ZERO emprical data on anything to grant this specific quote any substance whatsoever.
[B]
There’s quite a bit of Chinese influence in the Filipino arts
[/B]
The article focus on just one area of the very large culture, the Pampanga area which is again just one area, and in the article it showcases ZERO data on specific link points for any solid research or any follow through for anyone wanting to actually get any proof.
I am not saying there has not been some influence in some of the fma systems out there, I believe Sikiran may be one that if any has some chinese influence in its high line kicking structure, but to go with the line that there is quite a bit of chinese influence in fma is flight of fancy.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;782865]
That said, there is much in the FMAs, silat, and WCK that is not functional. And that’s because of the unrealistic practices of those methods – which produces unrealistic theory and application.[/QUOTE]
Let’s say you’re right…
What “unrealistic practices” are you talking about in each art..?
Why would these “unrealistic practices” come to be in ALL these DIFFERENT arts which, not that long ago needed to be functional..?
If these arts are not really functional why did they continue to exist before the modern era? <Post WWII>
What about arts like Iai Jutsu where there is a long history of people hacking each other into bits with purportedly great calm and focus? Same really goes for many CMA styles that used a lot of different weapons to do the much the same?
I have my own theories as to some of the ‘changes’ but I think that the mindset in use when applying these arts can vary greatly–eg fear of death or no fear of death, cultural belief systems that change how one sees combattechnical information that has since been changed or removed, a bill of goods sold like a used car, etc…
Still, a much different mindset in the east vs the west, emotionally, which can fundamentally change ones combative mindset and therefore what can work for the person physically IMO… Not everything works the same for each person and when there are fundamental belief systems that are different among groups of people I think you can see a wider range of what can be functional.
Many of the theories in these arts make a lot of sense.. Can folks apply them? I think some can to varying degrees. So to what degree is there distortion and why?
What “unrealistic practices” are you talking about in each art..?
Why would these “unrealistic practices” come to be in ALL these DIFFERENT arts which, not that long ago needed to be functional..?
If these arts are not really functional why did they continue to exist before the modern era? <Post WWII>[/QUOTE]
Because they quit fighting for real with them. FMA’s and Silat are good examples of this. These arts are filled with people who think they are deadly weapons fighters, but only do drills and very light contact sparring and have never done real, full contact in their lives.
