What could you jetison from your style and still keep it as that style? How many forms, costumes, esoteric weapons and shrines, special training devices and any trappings could you toss and still preserve the principles, techniques and flavor?
90 percent of mine could go.
I know for a fact that my teachers teacher didnt teach every thing he learned…just the things he thought practical, and my teacher has left a lot by the way side from what i remember of the classes when i started over 14 odd years ago.
well, you can’t toss any of it and call it what it isn’t anymore because part of it’s gone.
it’s ok to borrow and learn from other arts and use them in such a fashion that it can become an art form. Then it’s really really your style.
principles are principles. they are universal and belong to no one. once you have embodied them, they are your principles and do not belong to a style or a system.
it’s a fine line.
cheers
My style, shotokan, is already so stripped down that you couldn’t get rid of very much and expect it to remain “shotokan”.
Budokan, do you really need between 26 and 32 kata? Does every shotokan practitioner learn all 32? 
well, you can’t toss any of it and call it what it isn’t anymore because part of it’s gone.
So if I study karate without a gi and while wearing shoes I’m no longer doing karate?
I think the thin line is between the core of the style and the trappings that surrounds it. On second thought it’s a pretty thick line between the two.
it’s ok to borrow and learn from other arts and use them in such a fashion that it can become an art form.
KL, That’s sort of what I was going to ask in a couple of days but since you brought it up. How much can you add to your style and still keep it recognizable?
everything is useful
Maybe yes, maybe no, but that wasn’t the question.
the uniform is just clothes, jargon is just words.
everything else could stay. just my opinion.
what would u strip from your style?
If I add boxing to my Ngor Chor, then it is no longer Ngor Chor but a mix of boxing and Ngor Chor. There may be common elements but there are also differences in philosophy etc. I can call this my personal style, but I cannot really call it Ngor Chor.
F*ck it All. Or Most of It, At Least!
Cracks knuckles slides into asbestos underpants
Well, I’d get rid of the gis (the tops at least. the pants are super-nice to move in), the Japanese jargon (I can’t pronounce it at all, and more to the point, if I were present with several Japanese or Okinawan students, there’s no way in hell butchering a few words is going to convey my message. ESPECIALLY if they do not speak my language.), the punitive pushup crap (I’m not overly old, but I think I and most of the people over the age of 21 shouldn’t do pushups if they speak “out of turn”). Ever’thing else could stay.
Hell, I’d even add bagwork, footwork drills, focus mitt drills, speed bag work, and a ****load of conditioning, weights, calesthenics.
The terminology I’d keep are: (for no **** good reason)
Dojo (sounds cool, denotes a Japanese or Okinawan based style).
Kata (same as above)
The Names of the Kata (see above the see above notice, plus they are ****ing terrible to translate. 'Specially those named after people.)
[SIZE=6]F*ck tradition[/SIZE], in my non-humble, obey-me-or-suck-ass-treats opinion. This is about growing as an artist, not ****ing up a different culture.
“If I add boxing to my Ngor Chor, then it is no longer Ngor Chor but a mix of boxing and Ngor Chor. There may be common elements but there are also differences in philosophy etc. I can call this my personal style, but I cannot really call it Ngor Chor.”
: - joedoe
bread is bread and jam is jam, but if you spread jam on bread youre still eating bread with a jam flavour to it.
likewise with ngo chor and boxing.
my thoughts.
Since eveything in ones style is that style, whatever is left is still that style. And whatever you throw away is that style.~
General concept.
From my TKD I’d get rid of the beginner kata and replace them with drills for upper body, lower body and footwork techniques. I’d dump the Asian terminolgy except where it conveys a certain idea or meaning. Any kata should reflect actual techniques that will be used in self defense or fighting. I like the pants of my gi, and the top is useful for clothing grab techniques.
Joedoe, some have the theory that Ngor Chor + karate, or Hsing-yi + karate = Isshinryu.
Rogue;
Why? I know didly about those, with the exception of Xingyi (I’m a two-book Black Sash, Bizzatch!).
Sounds cool.
I think the link was between Motobu and a Hsing Yi guy named Tong Gee. Supposedly Shimabuku was studying with Motobu at this time. Could explain somethings about Isshinryu.
Originally posted by Starchaser107
[B]“If I add boxing to my Ngor Chor, then it is no longer Ngor Chor but a mix of boxing and Ngor Chor. There may be common elements but there are also differences in philosophy etc. I can call this my personal style, but I cannot really call it Ngor Chor.”
: - joedoe
bread is bread and jam is jam, but if you spread jam on bread youre still eating bread with a jam flavour to it.
likewise with ngo chor and boxing.
my thoughts. [/B]
Actually, you are eating bread with jam on top of it. If you want bread with jam flavour, you need to add the jam before it is baked. Then, wouldn’t you call it a tea cacke or something like that? 
I guess it really is an academic question. I believe you should do what you feel works for you, but call a spade a spade. If I felt that Ngor Chor was lacking in ground fighting and went and learned BJJ to rectify that, would it be right teach the BJJ component of my training as Ngor Chor? Or should I acknowledge that I have trained 2 different arts? I could rightfully call the synthesis of the two arts my personal style, but it would be wrong for me to call it pure Ngor Chor or BJJ.
Originally posted by rogue
[B]From my TKD I’d get rid of the beginner kata and replace them with drills for upper body, lower body and footwork techniques. I’d dump the Asian terminolgy except where it conveys a certain idea or meaning. Any kata should reflect actual techniques that will be used in self defense or fighting. I like the pants of my gi, and the top is useful for clothing grab techniques.
Joedoe, some have the theory that Ngor Chor + karate, or Hsing-yi + karate = Isshinryu. [/B]
That is fascinating. Can you expand on that some more? I don’t know much about Isshinryu, so maybe Vash can help us out here? I know that Ngor Chor is often attributed as the founding art of Gojuryu and Uechiryu, but then I have also heard the same of White Crane.
does that mean you rate isshinryu highly by your own standards?
curious.
Wish I did know more Joedoe, interesting theory though.
Starchaser107, in many ways yes and it was one of the inspirations for this thread. Beside Laughing Cows sparring thread and Bens thread of Fighting, another one is Tai Chi Chuan which has several varieties, long and short versions of forms etc. It all made me start to wonder about how much of a style are the trappings of traditions, culturalism and other things without direct bearing upon a style from a practical standpoint.
So what are the things that merely seperate a style from a similar style and those that make it truely unique?
Originally posted by Starchaser107
does that mean you rate isshinryu highly by your own standards?
curious.
Me? I have not seen Isshinryu so I cannot comment. If it was derived from Ngor Chor, it still would not guarantee that I would rate it highly as it has obviously changed, otherwise it would still be called Ngor Chor ;). I would even rate Ngor Chor poorly if it was taught badly