How do you know that your style is effective for defense: Not a troll

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
21

Man, now I gotta respond and worry abour how everyone sees me! :wink: JK

point 1.
Used it in a parking lot against two individuals trying to “haze” me with handcuffs, etc. (used both Vunak’s mass attack training, a high crotch takedown/slam, yokoshihogatame, and udegarami)
Saved me from a lot of pain and humiliation at that one…

  1. fought a guy at work once. Fight started after he asked me to show him double legs and he couldn’t defend them. I just broke him down to the floor, got my base, and moved to mount. He quit.

  2. Used it to takedown a bigger guy in high school a long time ago.

  3. Used it in many challenge matches against different kinds of fighters.

  4. Tapped out an experienced streetfighter.

Training in the dojo.
Used it with full resistence in BJJ and judo dojos, used it to pin and submit guys sometimes 50 pounds heavier than myself.

Always working on it and experimenting with new ideas.

I carry a knife that I know how to use, and OC spray.

I have effectively used my training to difuse situations quite often. This however was more the “police and security” training I had rather than martial art. But the two go hand in hand IMO.

Reasons why it might not work.

  1. Because none of this matters, and I always just doubt myself LOL!!! :smiley:

Like SevenStar said, I think I can at least hold my own, but I’m not superman.

Ryu

“One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage.”

22

Ryu, I found this cape lying at the base of this building and a shirt with a large red S. Did you drop it on the way out the door? :slight_smile:

  • Nexus
23

Thanks SevenStar. Knew I’d heard the term before.

stuart b.

24

Nexus, SHHHHHHHHHHHHH! :mad:

(what in the world is wrong with you!?)

ahem…

Uh…NO, that isn’t MY cape. Why, I HAVE NO IDEA who that Superman REALLY is. I’m just MILD MANNERED Ryu, with no SUPERPOWERS at all.
Remember??? Just a normal guy. That’s it.

… Nexus, just call the Bat Cave phone the next time I lose that, don’t just announce it to the world!

Ryu

“One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage.”

25

Keep em coming guys!

I know that it’s up to the person to make the style work, but let’s face it, there is some “bad stuff,” out there, so I’m just sort of operating under the assumption that we’re all training something we believe to be useful, hence my question. :slight_smile:

Xeb,

I think that an unarmed fight can still be considered self defense, but bottom line is I certainly agree with you. Somebody points a gun at me and I’ll give him anything he wants… no macho stuff here!

26

sorry - just to even it out - i’ve had my ass kicked on the street more than a few times too.

didn’t wanna sound like a up himself kid.

now i just sound like an up himself kid who’s used to getting his ass kicked :rolleyes:

=================================
What we really need is chicks with a whole new kinda orifice - Fish

Sharky, I should expect this level of immaturity from you after seeing your post titled “Hm.” regarding the woman that lives next door to you. I think everyone who unfortuneatly read that post is a bit more ignorant now for doing so. - Spectre

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

27

I think a good way to test your combat ability is to convince fighters to meet you at some faraway place, like Maryland, tell them you’ll be at some park, and then back out at the first opportunity. This gets them so pissed, when they finally find out where you are, they’ll be in a frenzy, and then you can find out if your system works.

28

I swear this whole similar to Ap Oweyn crap is just getting scary. I’ve never been in a real fight (except a one punch fight ender against a bully when I was in the second grade, that hardly counts ;)). But I do a lot of sparring (I know it’s different from the street, but good hard sparring really shows you how well you can hit a resisting target), and I do pretty well against some skilled guys. I tend to only trust a technique after I understand it well enough to accually apply it. Not because someone says it will work. But, if they do tell me it will work, I take it right to “the lab” and try to get it to work, once I understand the details behind it.

I don’t roll with the tough crowd, and I’ve got some big friends that can always help me out if I need it, but we do tend to “test” each other a lot, and before I really started getting into Chin Na (especially into BJJ), I was always a sucker for people that would attempt to grab me from a blind spot while I was just hangin’ out. We taught a couple of guys how to choke people properly, and I swear, I was getting choked out by these kids more than I cared too :p, but after rolling and building some sensitivity to the grappling range (or “mat sense”), I haven’t been choked out by a sneak attack. Actually I can usually reverse it and take a superior position for strikes, or tap 'em out (I never run from the sneak attack, I’m always using that as an opportunity to test my overall skills).

As for the stand up, The only thing I can say is that I use the heavy bag to build power, and endurance, the focus mits for speed and accuracy, forms for the footwork and agility, and the hard sparring to see if it all helps :slight_smile: I use a lot of drills to get a good fundamental understanding of a technique (especially grappling and joint locks), but again, I only trust them after I use them effectively in a sparring situation. We do allow all takedowns and ground fighting, but we tend to shy away from real aggresive takedowns because we’re sparring on concrete floors covered by a very weak excuse for carpet (more like thin cardboard).

So to recap, like Ap Oweyn mentioned, learn it, take it to the lab, rework the hypothesis until it works, move on. :slight_smile:

Jaguar Wong
The 6th Deadly Venom!

[i]Jaguar’s Wife (To “Judo” Gene Lebell): “Excuse me, my friend (Tigerstyle) wants to know if we can take a picture of you choking him.”
Gene LeBell (in a gravely voice): “If he don’t mind, I don’t mind.”

  • actual event from DragonFest 1999[/i]
29

hey jaguar,

you got one of those ‘triple 6’ birthmarks on the back of your head too?

…

oh. er, nevermind. forget i said anything even peripherally related to being the antichrist.

stuart b.

:wink:

30

ap Oweyn

not to deflate your delusions of demonic grandeur but I have to say, having chatted in here for a few short months you are way down on the whole Damien candidate list.

However, with the right practice and perseverence, I think you could get a job as his man servant Hecubus.

31

myosimka,

have you met Ap Oweyn? Trust me… he could be the anti-christ… he sometimes looks as though he’s never seen daylight.

Sorry Ap, it was too good to pass up! :smiley:

32

well, like i always say, behind every embodiment of ultimate evil, there’s a small, pasty-looking bloke in a black turtleneck.

…

okay, i’ll do it! [smirk]

stuart b.

33

that’s okay, merry. no worries.

the morlocks got a special treat for you the next time you come out to gaithersburg…

was that out loud? :slight_smile:

stuart b.

34

Damn morlocks…

grumble…

35

I know it works because Ive used it in a fight against both multiple attackers, single attackers, and a blade once. Also I try and train realistically and reactivley.
I think anyones art can be used for self defense against the average joe if trained in the proper manner. Movements must be instinctive (react properly without thinking), proper structure must be automatic, and one must know how to control an adrenal dump, and other psychological and psysiological reactions your body goes through before and during an altercation.

If many of the above are not satisfied training may hinder you rather than help you, if you try and fight logically and technically then you will most likely loose, no matter how many years you have in any art.
Regards,
Gary R.

“Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong”-Dennis Miller
www.pressurepointfighting.com

36

i think that one of the biggest issues that keeps coming up in discussions like this is the discrepancy between reality and practice. certainly, some of that discrepancy is inevitable (and, frankly, welcome). but some of it can be resolved.

we learn a technique, we practice the technique, we use the technique in drills designed to simulate various aspects of reality, we use the technique in controlled sparring, we use it in free sparring, and perhaps we use it in reality.

if some of those steps are left out (and they often are), then the discrepancy becomes larger. that’s not to say that the leap can’t be made when needs be. i’m not going to say it’s impossible for a guy who only trains forms to defend himself. it’s possible.

but across the board, i’d say i need the full spectrum. on the one end of the spectrum, things are orderly, allowing me to properly learn the technique. then, across the spectrum, the drills have to get more and more… chaotic, i suppose.

i see it in sparring a lot. the doe-eyed look that people get as they try to reconcile the difference between sparring someone and the solo mirror practice they’ve been doing. with nothing in between, that’s a pretty big leap in logic to make.

stuart b.
morlock chieftain

37

lol, Merryprankster. I had a similar fight my Freshman year in Highschool. A guy punched me while I was sitting in my desk. He tried again and I just ducked under and halfway suplexed him between the row of desks. I just held him down from behind(didn’t know any jiu-jitsu back then) and it was broken up.

I was so upset(don’t get into fights often) and wasn’t thinking straight…When ask if I was fighting I said ‘Yes’ and got to stay home for a few days. I’m sure I couldn’t have gotten off the hook because I didn’t throw a single stike while the other guy hit me twice. 1) the first punch 2) he elbowed me as I stood behind him after the fight was broken up(what a fvckin punk).

If that happened now the guy would be unconcious or have a broken arm…sometimes just wrestling is safer than jiujitsu =) That kid is lucky I don’t hold grudges =) He didn’t mess with me though after that! He knew I wouldn’t be so nice the second time =)

Good thread MP!

38

I think sports are very important. Even if they don’t incorporate all ranges of fighting(ie.wrestling) they allow you to spar at full speed. You don’t have to hold back and end up learning technique through drilling and efficiency of the technique through experience. After wrestling for just a couple year everything was like butter. Takedowns and other moves(like the standup) are instinctual. Sports like wresting/judo/boxing etc just change your body and instincts.

James…did you even think about hitting the double leg on that guy in RI when you were 16? I know when I threw down that kid in HS, I was on the ground before I knew what happened. I ducked under and threw him down without even thinking and had to piece together exactly what I did after the fact.

39

i haven’t been in a fight since highschool, but a couple of the guys that used to beat me sparring wind up frustrated now.

also fighting used to be the actual test for some of the higher ranks in my school. he didn’t promote students to black belt or their first dragon level until he saw them actually fight someone. most of the time he’d just go bar hopping with them until something happened. i don’t think he does this anymore, but the advanced tests are still pretty friggen rough. basically all the dragons come and beat the sh1t out of you 3 or 4 at a time for 3 to 4 hours. you don’t get a break and are promoted if you are able to use what you learned when you obviusly don’t stand a chance.

i know that i could hand the pre kf me my head.

we train realistically and the style is very practical and combat oriented.

i can hit hard now.

i hold my own sparring full contact to the body and light medium to the head.

where’s my beer?

40

tw,

Nah, I didn’t think. He was trying to hit me with a jab and I posted both elbows up and took him down :slight_smile:

Another question: is training for the Average Joe GOOD ENOUGH? Or do we need to be better than that?