How do you increase your strength, but not your size..?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Training and Health
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how do you increase your strength, but not your size??
for example, i want to get stronger with this routine i am to start this summer, however, i do not want a big, awkward chest, yet i am going to be using weights… have any solutions??
would the key to be to reduce work out times and avoid bench presses to get strength but not size, sort of like master Bruce?

Also, what exercise are there for increasing your punching power and what muscle groups are used? ( i know it’s more technique, but technique with power is to be desired) are lats and those muscles that you see boxers have, that outline the ribcage from a side view important??

thanks for your help

the hza

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It’s funny that people think that the moment they pick up a weight that they will magically increase in size. Increasing your muscle mass takes a lot of hard work and dedication and is anything but easy. Not only do you have to lift A LOT but you have to eat A LOT in order to increase size. So by simply starting a weight lifting routine you will not gain a significant amount of size so I wouldn’t worry about it.

Muscle groups to work on for punching power are chest, shoulders and back as well as your abs and lower back. BUT all the power in the world will not make you a powerful puncher if you have bad form or technique. So the best way to become a powerful puncher is to punch something like a heavy bag. Remember to wrap your wrists.

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These would be the primary factors.

  1. High intensity/%1RM (ie 1-5 reps)
  2. Low Volume (2-5 sets; 2-3 exercises/day)
  3. Long Rest Periods (3-5 minutes rest between each set)

Now the frequency (amount of workouts/week) depends on the periodization/loading scheme you are using. If you want to consistently work near your max for each lift (ie if you are doing 3 reps, you use a weight that you could only do 3 reps with), then you will have to 1-2 workouts each done 1-2x/weekly. If you want to cycle poundages, you can do less sets/day but 5+ workouts/week.

The cool thing about just working for strength and not size is that you don’t need to lift to your max every time out. A lot of the gains made are neurological in nature. This means that the neuro-pathways (the way the signal for that exercise travels your nervous system) become more engrained and effecient. This will allow you to not only use a larger percentage of your potential muscular force, but the movement will be more refined.

Just think of when you first started MA. Some of the moves were ackward, but as you practiced them, you were able to perform them more easily and more gracefully. The same thing goes for lifting weights. The more you do it, the better you’ll be able to perform the lift.

That said, you can cycle your pundages. You can lift at or close to your max for a week, and then cycle down and use a lighter weight the next week but use the same amounts of reps. This cycling of the weight is called periodizating. A popular periodization is a step-cycle made famous by Pavel Tsatsouline. It looks as follows:

  1. Workout Mon-Fri
  2. Do Deadlift, Bench Press, and Weighted-pullups every day for 2 sets of 5 each.
  3. Find your 5RM (5 rep max) and subtract 45 lbs from the pull-ups and bench, and 90 lbs from the deadlift. Your first workout will be at these poundages. The next day you add 5 lbs to your bench and pull-ups & 10 lbs to your deadlift. Do this for two weeks and the final workout you should be lifting for a new 5RM in each lift. Then repeat this cycle using the new 5RM to subtract from. Theoretically, you will be hitting a new max every two weeks while gaining no weight or a minimal amount.

There is another thing called post-tentactic facillitation, which primes the nervous system to lift more. You start a 4-5RM, rest, then do your 1RM, rest, and you should be able to do a new 4-5RM, rest, and then you should be able to do a new 1RM. This is a lot more intense in nature, so you need to pick a few different exercises and split them into 3 workouts. Do a workout every other day. (ie Workout 1, Rest day, Workout 2, Rest day, Wrokout 3, Rest day, Repeat) Since this is more intense, you can only remain on such a program for a month or so before needing to mix it up again.

The options really are limitless. This is not even taking into account that unless you are a genetic mutant, then you will need a very specific diet in order to gain large amounts of mass. The lifting I’m talking about is just more geared to gaining strength without size, but really, unless you eat for it, anything you do won’t put much mass on you.

Just do some reading at places like:

http://www.crossfit.com
http://www.dragondoor.com

for workout ideas. If you don’t really have any desire to read much about this stuff at all, then you’d be best served doing the crossfit.com “workouts of the day” If your gym has minimal equipment or you have minimal daily time, then buy Pavel’s “Power to the People” at Dragondoor.com and do that workout.

They are some of the better cookie-cutter type of things out there.

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Ford

You should save that last post to a text file or word doc. I have a feeling it will need to be posted again. And again and again. :slight_smile:

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Hey ford I’ve always been under the impression that the long wait between reps actually helps you to bulk up?

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why do you think avoiding the bench press would help to reduce your size gains?

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The long rest provides time to recover. We are talking maximal poundages in this workout. If I do a set o5 5 with 280, I’m not going to be able to do another set like that with only a 60 second rest. The shorter rest period leads to faster buildup of lactic acid, which = soreness… not what we’re after. Short rest periods promote muscular endurance.

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Ewallace, I gave up on it. I’m too long winded for my own good. I figured I was saying too much, so cut it short. :slight_smile:

Red, Nope. The majority in size gains from “bulking up” come from a mechanism known as sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. This is an increase in a jelly-like filler of the muscle that has little to do with contracting. What it has to do with is storing muscle glycogen which is what powers the muscle when ATP resevoirs are dry (generally 10 seconds into an intense exercise) The body then converts this glycogen into ATP through chemical processes. The longer your sets (ie the higher reps you use in a reasonable intensity 7-20) and the shorter the rest periods, then the more this sarcoplasm will be strained to keep up with energy demands. The muscle will adapt to this stimulus by doing what it can to make sure it has more energy next time, thus it creates more sarcoplasm.

Albeit, this isn’t the most scientific explanation, but I think it gets the point across. The longer you rest, the longer your body has time to replinish it’s ATP resevoir, so the less likely it’ll be to dip into muscle glycogen. Likewise, the higher intensity you use (ie 1-4 reps), the less likely you’ll be to lift long enough to severly tax this system either.

Side note: This is where creatine comes in. The first system used in power anything including muscle is the phosphagen system. Every muscle has a resevoir of ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate - Spelling may be off) which gives it energy to contract. This is quickly used up, but the by-product of it is ADP (Adenosine Diphosphate). This ADP will then combine with creatine phosphate found in all skeletal muscle to create more ATP. Again, this is short lived and it all happens generally in 10 seconds. Creatine supplementation should increase your skeletal muscle’s creatine stores, thus allowing you to prolong this a bit. All creatine does is allow you to work a little harder for a little longer. This should translate into gains.

The Glycolytic energy system comes into play when the phosphagen is exhausted. This is when glycogen undergoes chemical reactions to become ATP. The by-rpoduct of this is lactic acid which gives you the oh so familiar “burning” feeling when you are close to failure. That’s due to lactic acid build up.

The above two energy systems are your anaerobic energy systems. I know that term gets thrown around and some may not know what it actually means. Since those above two create ATP without oxygen, they are anaerobic. These are used for things like sprinting, weight lifting, bursts of speed, etc.

The “aerobic” energy system and hence where the term “aerobics” comes from is the oxidative energy system. This uses oxygen supplied by blood, which then undergoes chemical reactions to be turned into ATP in order to power muscle contractions. The nature of the reactions and the amount of oxygen being delivered makes is so that these contractions can not be very intense. This is the energy system used in long duration events like running a mile+, biking, swimming, etc.

Anyhoo, I’m all typed out for the day. I’ll give it a rest for a month or two. :slight_smile: No long posts.

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ford has wined, dined and sixty-neenered the correct so completely that it became clingy, causing ford not to return its phone calls.

on a serious note, ford is spot on. this helps show you why a bit of research can be helpful, but a lot can really be good for you. do a buncha reading each day or so on this stuff. read the sticky thread at the top of this thread, and read the links within. if you want more, maybe try t-mag for some good reading. ignore the sales pitches, and you’ll find some really good material. :slight_smile:

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Hey Ford, thanks for those posts, you explained it really clearly. I’m just starting out learning a little about how training the body works… i’ve got a bad case of the DOMS at the moment from mma class. We did 5 minutes of hop-hop-hop-squat hop-hop-hop-squat at the end of class that pushed me over the edge now it hurts walking down the stairs! Anyone got any good prevention tips, or what is it about certain kinds of exercise some cause soreness but others don’t??

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to prevent this, attend your class for a year and repeat the workout. Hi rep endurance work is pretty painful, but so is any work in a fatigued state. Also, new workout protocols tend to cause soreness. For instance, if you haven’t lifted heavy in a while, and you lift heavy for just a few reps, you will get sore. If you haven’t lifted for endurance for a while, and you lift for endurance, you will get sore.

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Fa jing is pretty much correct. If you regularly attend class or do similar work your body will adapt to that. Then it will take a much more intense workout to cause DOMS.

Ways to prevent DOMS itself is to cool-down after an intense workout, stretch after a workout, practice hot-cold contract showers or baths, ice massage, concentric only work, and stretch combined with massage. The exact cause of DOMS is still a bone of contention in the scientific community. The larger amount of stress is placed while the muscle is stretching under a load though (eccentric/lowering portion of the lift). Doing light concentric only actions the day after a wrokout, you pump blood through the muscle which will help flush out any toxins. A popular method is to use a pulling sled since you can perform a concentric actions, walk forward, repeat… There is not eccentric action at all. Another way is to use very low-intensity calesthenics. For example after a heavy bench workout, you may do some push-ups later in the day or the next day just to get blood flowing to that region.

All the rest of the methods I mentioned focus on the same principles:

-Cool-down: A low-intensity exercise will get blood flowing to that region…
-Stretch: Lengthens the muscle to preventing cramping or tightening which would trap toxins
-Hot-Cold Contrasting: Cold pushes blood deep into the muscle while hot brings it to the surface. In essense you are pumping blood through the muscle and clearing it of toxins.
-Ice Massage: Massage loosens the muscle and increases circulation while the ice forces blood deeper inside muscle.
-Massage with stretch: Same as stretch, but massage helps circulation

While DOMS may not always be avoidable, using such methods will help limit duration and intensity of it.

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that’s cool thanks guys - i googled a little and came up with pretty much the same stuff, again you layed it out really clearly that’s great. I thought there might be something about the number of reps or duration and intensity that caused it more than anything else. I’m fine with bw squats normally, i do them pretty slowly as more of a mechanics thing. The mma coach seems to come up with a different way to kill me every time usually the last 5 minutes or so of class is something like that or press-up sit-up pyramids, or loads of sprawls or something, but it’s rarely the same. Yeah i guess just stick with it and i’ll adapt.

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many thanks dudes

cheers for all that info dudes, has helped alot,

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What makes you think that if your chest gets bigger that is “awkward”?

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plenty of high rep endurence type training.

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lift your body not weights

If you want to get stronger without gaining size I would suggest doing mass pushups, pullups, dips, ect.. Workouts that dont require lifting another object other than your body. A good example would be my friend in highschool who would always do mass pushups in the school weight room with boxes. At the same time the baseball and football teams would be in there benching their hearts out and other things. After a few months my 115 lb friend benched 205 lbs 5 or 6 times to the shock of the gym. All of this just off of pushups, which did give his chest some good size, however not compared to benching workouts.

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Or you could just ignore the last two posts and follow Ford’s advice. :wink:

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[QUOTE=hazhardy]how do you increase your strength, but not your size??

If you are looking to increase strength, and you want to make these gains in strength to enhance your martial arts, then you need to do exercises that are going to give you strength for a particular movement. I ask…what martial art technique does bench pressing enhance? Pushing someone??
I don’t mean to tick anyone off, I just do not understand the concept of lifting weights.

Also, what exercise are there for increasing your punching power and what muscle groups are used?

http://www.noweightsworkout.com/exercises/armgrabs.php This exercise alone will double your punching power.

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BS. High rep and/or low weight training absolutely does not build raw strength, and to say it does goes against every proven theory in physiology.

(unless you mean he did 205 on a chest press machine or something which is completely different from benching 205)