Imagine you are squared off with an opponent.
Now the shape is essentially the same as a Bong Sao with the wrist on the center line. But drop your elbow so that your arm has a “goose neck” shape to it and the hand is more or less above the elbow, straight up and down. It should be the same angle as the bong sao more or less. Now if the hand (your fook sao) is aiming at the shoulder of your imaginary opponent as he hooks you (keeping the same shape)swing your fook sao out to meet it but allow your elbow to move off center and around your ribs to protect them.. Always aim at the shoulder and swing outward and you will never miss the hook. I find this works better than a Tan Sao because the oppoent can’t come around it as easily. I know this is a crappy description if you need more maybe I can get a picture or something.
Now a some things on this Fook Sao: 1)You will move off your own center as your elbow will move around your ribs as you accept the hook. 2)The purists will hate this move because it can be force on force but it works. 3)Maintain the “golden angle” or whatever the minimum elbow angle is for the bong sao so it won’t collapse in on you. 4)The beauty of this is you can block a hook to the head or maintaining the same shape just lower it a bit and the elbow will stop the hook to the ribs. 5)I’ve used it in the clinch and it worked. 6)My 120lbs. wife has made it work against much, much larger opponents who were skilled in boxing and San Shou so it’s structuarlly sound. 7)I try to catch hooks to the head by flicking the fook sao out really fast and hard so that the hook contacts the bone on the opposite side of my wrist from the thumb. This often hurts the opponent. 8)Make it a Fook Dar or step in and use an elbow simultaneously.
Like I say I’m sure some will say this is a violation of principal but the only violations that matter in my book are the ones that don’t work and I’ve used this movement successfully against much stronger opponents. Play with it and make it your own. Good luck.
I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
–Khalil Gibran
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Argh! Thanks for your kind post mate, but i can’t visualise the move? Do u mean like a tan sau, which is moved of centre, and then the wrist is bent to a fook sau? I remember doing this in class ages ago. Please clarify!
“Spectacular immaculate raps massacre cats like dracula bats, I’m snappin yer back cos I’m attackin the wack, duckin yer rapid attack, **** packin a gat, the mechanic of rap’ll give you panic attacks with his Satanical raps.” - Guess who.
as i re read u post, i am beginning to understand It is like i was imagining i think? If you start in tan sau, but move your elbow off centre to round near ur outside ribs, and have ur wrist bent and ur fook pointing away from you? Is that it? My sihing once showed me that man, but i’d forgotten it…
“Spectacular immaculate raps massacre cats like dracula bats, I’m snappin yer back cos I’m attackin the wack, duckin yer rapid attack, **** packin a gat, the mechanic of rap’ll give you panic attacks with his Satanical raps.” - Guess who.
Lean backwards and block with a Wu Sau the arm opposite of the hook, on the outside of the attacking arm. The lean should grant you space. Your opposite arm shifts from Wu Sau to a grab/pull technique (its in Wing Chun and Chin Na) and grabs their hook from the outside and pulls down and across their own body (trapping) as you step in and punch. Pivot at the same time as the pull to increase the motion and snapping force and throw your opponent off balance.
This would be nigh impossible if you didn’t lean backwards and pivot at the same time as the hook, because of the proximity of the attack.
This doesn’t break any principles because it’s not “Blocking,” it’s just carrying through with the motion that’s already in place.
-Scott
“I’m just an actor, just like Robert f***ing Redford when I say those stupid words that they expect me to say.”–Art Alexakis
it does, cos you’re leaning back and breaking the correct structure.
are we forgetting how fast a hook actually is here people?
“Spectacular immaculate raps massacre cats like dracula bats, I’m snappin yer back cos I’m attackin the wack, duckin yer rapid attack, **** packin a gat, the mechanic of rap’ll give you panic attacks with his Satanical raps.” - Guess who.
Tan Dah is a very good answer to a hook punch. Also depending on your range at which the Hook punch is coming in moving back a bit letting it pass and jut sao followed with a Wing Chun Horizontal Hook punch works extremely well. Hope this Helps.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> as i re read u post, i am beginning to understand It is like i was imagining i think? If you start in tan sau, but move your elbow off centre to round near ur outside ribs, and have ur wrist bent and ur fook pointing away from you? Is that it? My sihing once showed me that man, but i’d forgotten it… [/quote]
Right on Sharky.
Whipping Hand, how do you suggest “breaking a hook”? Let me guess a “Go bong sao”.
I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
–Khalil Gibran
I’ve gotta say I’m getting a little nervous hearing people advising others to lean back from a hook. It works fine for Ali, but remeber that a whole generation of boxers were ruined because they tried Ali moves without Ali speed.
Leaning backwards can work once. The problem? You do that the first time, it works a treat. second time, your opponent is waiting for it, and will go downstairs. With your wait over your back leg, and body angled backwards, it is difficult to regain the body structure or footwork required to defend against body blows. It hurts.
is bad. move inside the range of the hook, turn with a ‘chuen ma’ or even a ‘ngoi seen wai’ to the opposite side of the hook, put a ‘tan’ up, and with your other hand make a fist and use it.
when sparring, play fighting, or whatever, I welcome hooks. They tend to be, for me, one of the easiest attacks to defeat.
A good exercise for building up confidence/skill against hooks is to set up in a closed stance across from your partner. Both of you chain punch in synch, opposite arms meeting on the outside. One designated person will break off and throw a hook from either side. The defender will use ‘tan’ to meet the hook and with the other hand punch the attacker’s chest. Rinse and repeat as needed.
We are talking a boxers hook here. When I throw a hook while boxing or doing San Shou I am way too close for any chain punches to work in fact I would be (chest to chest)less than one foot away maybe even in the clinch. If you tan sao I will go around it and hit you anyway but more than likely you won’t be able to because I’ll be clinching with one hand and working your ribs with the other. Realistically, I don’t consider myself a good boxer or all that strong but I can fire a close range hook shot into a Muay Thai bag hard enough to bend it into a “V” shape so think about what a bigger person could do and also the very low probability of “breaking” that.
I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
–Khalil Gibran
I read your post but what good is an exercise that doesn’t prepare you for reality? Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.
I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
–Khalil Gibran
“When I throw a hook while boxing or doing San Shou I am way too close for any chain punches to work in fact I would be (chest to chest)less than one foot away maybe even in the clinch.”
Well of course, at that distance, with gloves on, you won’t be able to generate enough power. Take the gloves off, then you can. That is, if you have a good punch.
Scoot, i agree with your leaning back. it comes from the Siu Lim Tao stance in yee jee kim yeung ma. I use it all the time with my Chum kiu ma with great result and no break of structure. not many will understand this in this forum, however it does work without breaking of structure, and the best thing of all is the no loss of distance or balance.
We have a drill that trains this, in the Ip Man System, and yes almost horizontal.
Congratulations for understanding this.
I hope the next guy I fight leans back. He’ll soon find my knee in his diaphragm and my fist in his face after I’ve taken him to the ground.
I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
–Khalil Gibran
If we’re referring to gao san (at the end of biu jee for example, or something more lateral in the jong for another type of small adjustment.) As the name implies, they’re emergency sort of techniques, IMHO, where small sacrifice is made to avoid big failure (not that there aren’t a ton of regular goodies therein as well).
In my experience, WCK takes into account that things might go wrong or come about in surprise, and there’s layer upon layer of coping mechanism in place.
While less than ideal, I do believe that there are times you need to break the regular rules (or the result, again, could be “ouch, ouch, my head, my head.”)
I guess what I should’ve said is that so many people in WCK keep their weight so far back anyway that they are vulnarable to takedowns and extra leaning will make you doubly so. Once any momentum is gained by the attacker it is very difficult to stop a low charge, or a shoot as the momentum will keep the attacker going forward right through punches & kicks.
I like to be close enough to my opponent to hold onto their belt and I look for things like leaning back or too much weight on the heels because it’s often that split second opportunity needed to knock the opponent over.
BTW I may not agree with some of the viewpoints in this topic as I’m sure others disagree with mine but this is an important topic because so many WCK people have trouble with hooks. Keep those ideas comin’!
I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
–Khalil Gibran
It is like i was imagining i think? If you start in tan sau, but move your elbow off centre to round near ur outside ribs, and have ur wrist bent and ur fook pointing away from you? Is that it? My sihing once showed me that man, but i’d forgotten it…