Chi sao is chi sao whether one uses the Ip man half circle or the full circle should make no difference. Chi sao is not in the rolling of the hands that is only a formality.
[QUOTE=stonecrusher69;1087100]Chi sao is chi sao whether one uses the Ip man half circle or the full circle should make no difference. Chi sao is not in the rolling of the hands that is only a formality.[/QUOTE]
Good point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK8oHEB4lU8
In this clip, the reason that your opponent could push you is because you didnot grab on his wrist and control his arm. Why do you want to give your opponent that kind of freedom?
Will it be better if you use the following strategy?
If you control your opponent’s arms by grabbing on both of his wrists (put your opponent in defense), when he tries to break your grips, you suddently attack. Trying to assume that your opponent will never grab your wrist is not be realistic in combat.
[QUOTE=stonecrusher69;1087100]Chi sao is chi sao whether one uses the Ip man half circle or the full circle should make no difference. Chi sao is not in the rolling of the hands that is only a formality.[/QUOTE]
Well said. I agree it’s starting point with a bridge in place.
@Youknowwho:
This is very poor and very basic example (too many wrongs to mention if it is indeed Cho Ga WC Chi Sao) but like I said it looks like this this the students first introduction to Chi Sao, all the clips are of low level skill, IMHO.
Master Yao on the other hand is a high hand for sure but with a different flavor.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1087350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK8oHEB4lU8
In this clip, the reason that your opponent could push you is because you didnot grab on his wrist and control his arm. Why do you want to give your opponent that kind of freedom?
Will it be better if you use the following strategy?
If you control your opponent’s arms by grabbing on both of his wrists (put your opponent in defense), when he tries to break your grips, you suddently attack. Trying to assume that your opponent will never grab your wrist is not be realistic in combat.[/QUOTE]
There are many ways one can train in that platform.
one advance way is to compress the 20Ch 6DFV into a contact points, without graping, one can control the opponent via just a contact point. thus it is extremely fast control handling. control at any contact.
The clip above is purposely train for 20Ch 6DFV.
[QUOTE=FongSung;1087413]Well said. I agree it’s starting point with a bridge in place.
@Youknowwho:
This is very poor and very basic example (too many wrongs to mention if it is indeed Cho Ga WC Chi Sao) but like I said it looks like this this the students first introduction to Chi Sao, all the clips are of low level skill, IMHO.
[/QUOTE]
It is certainly Cho Ga WC chi sao in the very begining form. Wong evolve his art but it is still Cho Ga WC based.
Care to share what are wrongs in that clip in your oppinion?
Hendrik would you say the clips are a good example?
Can you tell me what are the good points that indicate the Cho family flavor (besides the full circling which is found in mainly other styles)?
Hendrik would you say the clips are a good example?
Sure.
for beginner why not?
Perhaps I got old and sloppy now. or I get to those everything is ok stage of life.
Can you tell me what are the good points that indicate the Cho family flavor (besides the full circling which is found in mainly other styles)?
I got too old to know .
so,
That is why I ask you above. since you mention
(too many wrongs to mention if it is indeed Cho Ga WC Chi Sao)
So may be I can learn from you. Hahaha
This is how old I am:
http://baike.baidu.com/view/388323.htm
Ha ha I doubt that for a moment , I am no high hand but as you can see they are rolling is so open, even the Sifu. Like this you can enter and strike them before they can bridge.
OK 3 most basic points of any WC I suppose:
- No “Gip Bong” (trademark of GM On)
- No forward pressure
- Circling way too wide thus forearms not covering the center i.e. elbows going way too high (elated to point 1).
Basically I read their “body language” as come on you can hit me anywhere you like.
[QUOTE=FongSung;1087430]Ha ha I doubt that for a moment , I am no high hand but as you can see they are rolling is so open, even the Sifu. Like this you can enter and strike them before they can bridge.
OK 3 most basic points of any WC I suppose:
- No “Gip Bong” (trademark of GM On)
- No forward pressure
- Circling way too wide thus forearms not covering the center i.e. elbows going way too high (elated to point 1).
Basically I read their “body language” as come on you can hit me anywhere you like.[/QUOTE]
Great and thanks for sharing. These days I love to learn the view from different branches of Cho family to update myself.
Could you please explain what is Gip Bong?
Spencer,
Once again… irrespective of whether the clip is evaluated in terms of function, the type of rolling movement shown in the clip IS chi sao. it is another PLATFORM. As Hendrik correctly pointed out, it is a characteristic of mainland WC lines. One another thread you wrote that chi sao is definately NOT your specialty. This is reflective in some of your comments.
If I recall correctly, you met my sifu. This was the chief platform by which he taught connected fighting in his Hei Ban Wing Chun method.
Suki
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1087414]The clip above is purposely train for 20Ch 6DFV.[/QUOTE]
You can develop many different skills from this training. You can develop “Tinjin” through that training. You can also develop “grab fight” through that training. So why not develop both at the same time?
[QUOTE=FongSung;1086975]These look like raw beginners just learning to make a circle, ha ha ha, how can you judge them?. Their rotation is extremely exaggerated and open showing they are not even used to the basic movement.
This type of full circle Chi Sau is all over Southern China and is older than the half circle Chi Sau commonly used in HK and else where… There are many other Wing Chun sifu’s doing the same in vdo’s on youtube. I think even Ip Ching and Sam Kwok break into this method and call it huen sau…[/QUOTE]
Duh! Thanks for the reference to huen-sau. The movements in the videoclip were so big and wide, I didn’t even recognize them as chi sau until you mentioned this! But yes, we do sometimes train with a “full circle”, constantly rotating our wrists in a huen sau movement. If you were to do that, and make the movements huge and circular, and completely abandon centerline, I suppose it could look like this. Especially if you drank heavily first.