Help with qi

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Taijiquan and the Internal Martial Arts
1

Ok, somebody help me out here. Please.

Been doing Taiji for awhile but never felt any of the stuff I hear others say they feel. Qi moving around their bodies, heat, etc.

So my question is this - what is the best exercise for developing and feeling qi?

I realize there isn’t just one best exercise or drill but I’m hoping to get some good suggestions and I’m going to try my darndest to feel something happenning in my body.

Now, I’ve seen qi expression in others and have felt it first hand on one occassion but I’m still skeptical about everyone running around after a few lessons saying they feel it circulating. I think they want to believe so much that most of the time they imagine it more than really feeling it.

Anyhow, as a personal quest I’m searching for that qi feeling. I’ll be in Japan next week until Nov. 1st but when I return I plan on concentrating more on Taiji and Qigong.

Anyone have a suggestion? Other than finding a good teacher? Pictures and video clips would help.

2

Listen and feel, maybe you are too tense and you need to shut up inside the head.

Thats the best thing for you to understand for now i guess…:slight_smile:

FT

3

Hi Ou Ji,

Keep in mind that the practice of chi development is most frequently referred to as Chi “cultivation”. There is a reason for this. Chi development cannot be forced. It must be cultivated, that is: grown from the inside out! If I wish to plant a garden I will first ensure I provide fertile soil, plenty of sunlight and water. When I provide these proper ingredients the plants grow according to their own nature. There is no “forcing” involved, just the conditions to create the best environment for the plants to grow. In this same manner is Chi developed. If you apply yourself to your practice and you remain reasonably consistent it will occur in its own time. If you become too engrossed in attempting to force experiences you will hamper your progress. It matters less that you can “feel” chi and more that it is expressed in your techniques! Chi cultivation is primarily influenced by ones mind. The more tension or frustration you create due to trying to force the experience the more blockage of chi’s natural flow will occur. Relax and let it happen in its own time!

Try not to become engrossed in competition with others for chi experiences. The pursuit of experiences of this type is for beginners and dilettantes. Consistent training and emotional balance are the most effective principles to follow.

It is true that many get excited when they first experience what they consider to be evidence of chi and they want to share their excitement and enthusiasm with others. It is also correct that many times the evidence is merely a manifestation of their wish to feel chi and cannot be confirmed as actually chi. In some environments the experience of “feeling chi” is used ego-centrically as a means to establish superior status over those who cannot feel their chi. The subtle implication is, “See how advanced I am because I can feel my chi!” This too is the attitude of a beginner and dilettante.

The truth is, “feeling” chi has nothing to do with superior skill or ability. We all possess chi. We all breathe. We all have heart beats. Just because I can feel my heart beat and you cannot feel yours does not confer any special martial ability on me that you do not possess. Both of our hearts beat according to our fitness and the nature of hearts. This occurs whether I know I have a heart or not. It is best not to become too engrossed or preoccupied with superfluous experiences that ultimately have no bearing on your greater purpose or goal.

4

I know what you mean Ou Ji.
May I suggest that you practise zhan zhuang, preferably the wuji posture. I find it is the easiest way to find your alignment and to lengthen/loosen your body.
I don’t know if that’s finding your qi but it aids in getting whole body motion.

5

This topic was just discussed!

Click here: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38406

6

I remember that thread. There was also another thread quite some time ago, maybe even last year. Anyhow I intended to ask about specific exercises back then but never did. Peeps were making claims of feeling qi and such after 2 weeks of practice. I’m very skeptical of that.

Also the whole imagery thing seems to me could be all in the mind and if you want to feel it and imagine it flowing around you will believe that you feel it. I’m not looking for make believe.

I’ve been practicing TC for about 8 years I guess but it’s always been secondary to kung fu training. I’m surprised it hasn’t come in this amount of time so I’m stumped.

Like I said in another thread I’ve felt it personally from a TC master in China and it was real so I have no choice but to believe. But I still think that the majority who make qi claims are deluded.

I’ve done standing type breathing exercises before but usually no more than 10 - 15 minutes. I’ll try pushing it to 20 - 30 minutes and see what happens although trying that for at least a year is a tough expirement.

Oh and FT, how to shut up in the head is a question the desperately needs to be answered. My wife is continually amazed that my mind never stops thinking and I’m amazed that hers rarely starts thinking.

There is no empty mind for me.

7

Physical things often start with an imaginary component. Almost all inventions brought into the world were ‘imagined’ first, then thought about, had the ‘bugs’ worked out, then became ‘real’. I agree that most of those who claim chi experiences are just ‘imagining’ them…and never get past that point, and those things stay, along with their martial abilities, just a figment of their imagination.

Could be the key for you lies in your description of your mind that “never stops working”. It may be that you interrupt the “imagining” component of creation by instantly questioning and examining any chi experience as soon as it begins to appear. Nipping it in the bud, so no flower appears. This often happens with people with overly active, strong minds.
Maybe walking in a strong , natural setting, like a mountainside in the sun, or in a strong wind, just concentrating on the ‘feeling’ of the elements against you, not thinking whether they’re ‘real’, would be a good training to develop the necessary ‘witnessing’ ability to capture the ‘chi’ sensation.
Remember, good ‘chi’ is hard to find.
Peace

8

Ou Ji,

I remember that thread. There was also another thread quite some time ago, maybe even last year. Anyhow I intended to ask about specific exercises back then but never did. Peeps were making claims of feeling qi and such after 2 weeks of practice. I’m very skeptical of that.

I would be very skeptical of most Qi claims! Thats why its always best to test for yourself but indeed one needs some quality time invested to see if something is of value or not.

Also the whole imagery thing seems to me could be all in the mind and if you want to feel it and imagine it flowing around you will believe that you feel it. I’m not looking for make believe.

Its always best to let things happen naturally! Avoid thinking or forcing your body to feel stuff. 3 keys! Posture, relaxation and soft dan tien breathing.

I’ve been practicing TC for about 8 years I guess but it’s always been secondary to kung fu training. I’m surprised it hasn’t come in this amount of time so I’m stumped.

Dont feel bad! 1 out of 10,000 taiji people probally get it! If that! Why? Is it so complicated or are we making things more complicated? They skip the core foundation training IMO. All Taiji start and end in Wuji! Zhan Zhuang is the base training of almost all internal martial art. Skip this and it may take a lifetime if you ever get it.

Like I said in another thread I’ve felt it personally from a TC master in China and it was real so I have no choice but to believe. But I still think that the majority who make qi claims are deluded.

That should tell you something is wrong with the training right! :wink:

I’ve done standing type breathing exercises before but usually no more than 10 - 15 minutes. I’ll try pushing it to 20 - 30 minutes and see what happens although trying that for at least a year is a tough expirement.

I have been standing for 3+ years now. 10-15 minutes here and there wont do it! Minimum is 20 minutes a day for as long as it takes. Less just wont do it IMO. I have shared the Zhan Zhuang training with a few people. Some from Taiji and some from other arts. After 1 year of 20 minutes daily they are all starting to cultivate and their bodies are also changing! There is no magic pill to Chi! Standing is the simple way that cannot be exhuasted!

Oh and FT, how to shut up in the head is a question the desperately needs to be answered. My wife is continually amazed that my mind never stops thinking and I’m amazed that hers rarely starts thinking.

There is no empty mind for me.

Begin your training in Stillness (zhan zhuang) and be faithful to it! Little by little you will change/cultivate!

A good book to check out is:

Warriors of Stillness vol 1!

Taiji Wu Ji Zhuang!

Best of luck!

9

Is there any time preference for Zhan Zhuang training?

Morning? Evening?

10

Ou Ji,

There are times that are better for Chi Kung but the most important thing is daily practice! Skip one day, fall back ten days!

So, lets all follow the golden rule of Nike:

Just Do It!

:smiley:

11

practice regularly and properly, the results will happen! the old masters never gave us a schedule for the various phenomena to manifest to us. they only told us that the phenomena would happen with proper practice! and besides, i think we gain more from sticking to the training than waiting for results! just practice.

12

Ou Ji

If you have a good teacher you can experience chi in the 1st lesson. My wife was the biggest skeptic until she did one class and was amazed of what happened to her and what she felt during the Jaam Jong.

Maybe start with trying to make a small energy ball between your hands?

all the best.

FT

13

Right, qi balls between my hands.

I don’t see a smiley so I’m guessing you’re serious?

I may have to reconsider quoting you in my signature.

14

hey, i was serious bro, try it and you will feel heat and like your hands are like magnets.

This is a basic way to feel tingles, heat etc…place each palm facinge ach other and pull them apart and push them together really slowly and you will feel something if you relax.

seriously dude its really simple.

FT:)

15

practice, patience, persistence!

Ou ji,

FWIW. The best advice you can get is not here. You ask what exercises you can do to cultivate qi, yet without a qualified instructor, I think you would waist a great deal of time (I speak on this from experience). Even if everyone gave you an exercise in great detail, how would you progress be guaged or tracked? How could you possibly know if you are doing the exercise correctly?

I used to say the same thing. I wanted to experience for MYSELF what I had “read about in books” regarding qi. It took me a while, but I found a teacher and have been at it ever since. Qi is not a myth, a secret, or a mystery. And there’s much more to it than what you may currently think. That was certainly the case for me!

Don’t get me wrong. The advice on Zhan Zhuang, relaxing, etc is SOLID! I do standing practice daily. But truly, without the guidance of a qualified teacher, the road is sure to be a lot longer. The study of internal arts is an experiential thing that can not be learned from books or videos. A lot is learned by feeling a teacher’s body, or getting a correction on your posture, learning breathing techniques, etc.

I think most would agree that qi gong practice is a lot more than what you think and the books you may read have concepts that are very profound.

I wish you well and hope you find what you seek.

PS-I’m certain there are qualified teachers in Japan (if that is where you will be for a while) and I am certain you can ask folks on this site about qualified teachers in whichever area you will return to.

Happy training!

ANJ

Practice, Patience, Persistence!

16

Thanks for all the info everyone. I don’t mean to sound like a jerk but how difficult is it to stand motionless holding your arms out?

I really don’t see the necessity of having a qualified instructor overseeing that type of training.

I just don’t subscribe to the notion that all is hopeless without personal instruction from a qualified teacher. Results vary depending on the source with personal instruction at the top and scribbled notes at the bottom.

Anyhow I had been planning on trying 20 - 30 minutes of Zhan Zhuang for quite awhile now. Got some good info from Master Wang Rengang in NY.

Sorry FT, I just tried it and all I feel is warmer when hands are close and cooler when far apart. Nothing unusual there.

17

A quick points and opinions:

Good that you’re not forcing a “feel” and can be honest with yourself. It took me some time too. Where I felt it first, and became aware of it, was in taiji’s first move, the up and down.

When in the up position, imagine that you are pushing a big log into the water, and it raises you up. Keep your palms opn and your fingers straight. Hold your head up, pull everything up and try to quiet the mind. Very hard to explain all of this, you need a teacher to show you.

But think about this: you only think about your head or stomach when they hurt … otherwise, you feel nothing special about those parts. Guys who are feeling things early, that’s not necessarily their chi. It’s their channels opening up. Perhaps everything is flowing well and all is good.

Some pustures were very unformfortable for me at first, I felt too much, and it wasn’t chi. Now I can hold them a lot easier, much more relaxed about it.

Good luck.

18

Thanks for your input. For the record I am not trying to learn TC blindly on my own. I’ve had decent instructors in the past.

I’m sure I wasn’t putting enough into it because I was more occupied with external training. I’m just wondereing if there are better exercises for me since the stuff I’ve been doing doesn’t seem to be giving me the results that others are claiming.

Not that I think they’re all lying but I am VERY skeptical. Hence my decision to try making a bigger effort before hollering QI NUTS. :smiley:

19

How hard is it to stand motionless with your arms held out in front of you?
Very hard! That is if you are doing it properly, hence the need for qualified instruction. It took me a year just to come close to the proper alignment and when I finally began to stand properly I could barely hold the stance for 10 minutes.
That’s how long it took me to just learn to relax and sink into the posture, the wuji posture that is, with my arms comfortably hanging by my sides.
Now 2 years later, I practise the tree-hugger for about 30 min every day(almost), yet I’ve still not achieved 30 min of song in my posture, there is always some tension creeping in.
Maybe in a few more years I’ll have it, to borrow a phrase “just do it”

20

You will believe what works for you…

Ou ji,

You do not sound like a jerk. You’re giving your honest opinion. As I gave mine.

I couldn’t agree more with cam. It’s very hard to practice these postures correctly. I practice every day trying to improve. It is truly a challenge. There are several components of practice and they are all important.

I chose to reply to this thread because it was similar to my experience. I started studying shao-lin (external) and caught a glimpse of Tai Chi, Ba Gua and Hsing Yi, but not in depth. I decided to search for a teacher to EXPERIENCE for myself what this “internal” was really about. I was lucky enough to find one. It is not at all what I thought it was. It is a great deal more.

I think ultimately you will follow what works for you. Practicing consistently is good and practicing correctly wouldn’t hurt either.

If you find a teacher, I would be interested in your opinion after studying with him/her for a while.

Good luck and best regards.
Anj

Practice, Patience, Persistence