I saw Rocky Balboa this weekend. I had no desire to see it in the theater, but I am a fan of the rocky movies (half of them, anyway) so I rented it to at least see what it was about. The training scenes impressed me. Rocky’s trainer said he was too old and had too many problems for things like long runs and lots of sparring, so he wanted him to just build as much strength as possible - and had him doing squats, oly lifts, kettlebell work, etc. I wonder if we’ll start to see more and more of this in the forefront.
Greetings SevenStar,
Check out the training sequences in Rocky IV. This was long before Furey, Pavel, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wSkGQHL_9M
The theme for that paticular training sequence was different: Hi Technology vs Spartan training. I think the real missing link in martial arts training has been powerlifting (aka: Sifu John Allen was right).
mickey
Honestly I doubt it man,
Hardcore weightlifting seems to be one of those things that transcends martial arts. It’s either a you enjoy it kinda thing or you don’t as its a whole study on its own.
Hi Black Jack II,
There is also that nostalgia aspect to the stuff SevenStar mentions that seems to be combined with the urge to pull some of the older methods into the 21st century before they are lost: the need to hold on to the past because of uncertainty about the future.
mickey
you know what i think is funny … no where in 3 montages did i see a bench press. im not hatin on the bench, but i think there’s a reason for that. yet whats the first question ****tards ask you?
Theres no benchpress in his training because it dosent really result in stronger punches. I have a much more developed lifting background than a martial one, but the bench dosent do much for a properly thrown punch.
-and your right, that is the 1st thing momo’s will ask you about…never to show off my stances :mad:
I’m just honest with people. I get comments once in awhile because I look pretty muscular to non-gym rats. I tell them, “I don’t bench.” Usually thier jaw drops, and they mumble something about “… coach (my dad, my brother etc.) says…” And I just smile and repeat, “Well, I don’t believe that. I don’t bench.”
Don’t get me wrong, the Bench Press is a good lift. I just don’t think it’s necessary, because it dosen’t mimic any natural movements. If for some reason I couldn’t clean and press, military press, push press, or dip, then I’d bench. Only then.
from the standpoint of striking, bench pressing is unnecessary. now, if you grapple, it has its benefits.
Hard core ST has been in the MA for ages, look at Okinwawan Goju.
Strength is an important factor in every MA, to deny that is silly, and as such should be developed.
How is really up to the person.
Not everyone likes powerlifting or even working with weights.
Luckily there is so much variety right now that if you don’t find soemthign you like its because you are not looking.
I only do ST once a week, as I use it only to supplement my MA, and even then I still DL and Squat over 350lbs at 170 BW.
It doesn’t take much or consume that much time.
[QUOTE=SevenStar;766487]from the standpoint of striking, bench pressing is unnecessary. now, if you grapple, it has its benefits.[/QUOTE]
Perfer weighted Dips myself, but you are correct.
[QUOTE=SevenStar;766487]from the standpoint of striking, bench pressing is unnecessary. now, if you grapple, it has its benefits.[/QUOTE]
i agree. this is a post i made on benching on another forum a few months ago:
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;766492]Perfer weighted Dips myself, but you are correct.[/QUOTE]
both great, but dont work the same muscle groups in the same way.
[QUOTE=GunnedDownAtrocity;766537]both great, but dont work the same muscle groups in the same way.[/QUOTE]
Don’t really care about “muscle groups”, don’t do bodybuilding.
The big boys of ST have always been:
Squats
DL
Weighted Chins
Weighted dips
Overhead presses
BP was a add-on after the fact, do em if you like em.
[I]Theres no benchpress in his training because it dosent really result in stronger punches.
from the standpoint of striking, bench pressing is unnecessary. now, if you grapple, it has its benefits.[/I]
Reply]
Ok,I know I ama bit ignorant here, but a punch starts close to the body, and extends out. a bench press is a loaded motion that starts close to the body, and moves out.
How can this not be bennificial to punching hard?
If you want to argue that a dumbell bench helps punching more than a barbell, I will agree, but to say it does not help at all or very little? That just does not make sense to me.
Yes, i understand the whole mechancis issue, but the arm is an imprtant link in punching mechanic. I would think loading the muscle groups that move the arm forward & away from the body with a Bench press will more than help a punch…which does the same thing.
[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;766553][I]Theres no benchpress in his training because it dosent really result in stronger punches.
from the standpoint of striking, bench pressing is unnecessary. now, if you grapple, it has its benefits.[/I]
Reply]
Ok,I know I ama bit ignorant here, but a punch starts close to the body, and extends out. a bench press is a loaded motion that starts close to the body, and moves out.
How can this not be bennificial to punching hard?
If you want to argue that a dumbell bench helps punching more than a barbell, I will agree, but to say it does not help at all or very little? That just does not make sense to me.
Yes, i understand the whole mechancis issue, but the arm is an imprtant link in punching mechanic. I would think loading the muscle groups that move the arm forward & away from the body with a Bench press will more than help a punch…which does the same thing.[/QUOTE]
The BP is beneficial in strengthing the punching muscles, much like doing push-ups is beneficial in helping with the muscular endurance of the muscles involved in punching.
Will that make you a better puncher? and “harder” puncher? Nope, not as much as working on your punches, obviously, but it will help the muscles involved.
Much like doing squats won’t let you break the 10 second barrier in the 100 MT, but it will help strengthen the muscles so you can TRY.
In punching, your arm has to have stability and the ability to withstand the trauma of punching a hard target. In that sense it needs strength. However, a punch is thrown with the legs, hips, waist, torso twisting action with the arm as a loose appendage with a rock on the end of a rope sort of thing. BP will make you better at push-punching, but that is about it.
I don’t know. Common sense says that developing strength anywhere along the chain will improve punching power.
Now, if you had one guy working on mechanics, and another benching, the guy doing mechanics will be hitting harder…but a third guy doing both will hit the hardest.
You really can’t look at this in sections. A punch is a whole body activity, and you really can’t neglect any portion of that system. Benching develops a key segment of that whole body chain.
[QUOTE=SevenStar;766373]I saw Rocky Balboa this weekend. I had no desire to see it in the theater, but I am a fan of the rocky movies (half of them, anyway) so I rented it to at least see what it was about. The training scenes impressed me. Rocky’s trainer said he was too old and had too many problems for things like long runs and lots of sparring, so he wanted him to just build as much strength as possible - and had him doing squats, oly lifts, kettlebell work, etc. I wonder if we’ll start to see more and more of this in the forefront.[/QUOTE]
the other thing here is that, pure Strength training takes less out of your joints, repetition wise, than other training.
As you get older, repetitive motion damage becomes an issue to your joints, especially shoulders and knees.
The high weight BUT low rep scheme of typical pure ST actually stresses out your joints LESS because of the low level of repetitive movement.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;766543]Don’t really care about “muscle groups”, don’t do bodybuilding.
The big boys of ST have always been:
Squats
DL
Weighted Chins
Weighted dips
Overhead presses
BP was a add-on after the fact, do em if you like em.[/QUOTE]
the two movements generate power in different ways. working different “muscle groups” should not be a concern of bodybuilders only. benching works the lats pressing power in a way that i dont think weighted dips can match. im not saying the bench is superior, but i also cant say that the difference between the two is a bodybuilding difference.
also to my knowledge bench was in the very beginnings of powerlifting in different forms. floor presses and such.
[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;766587]I don’t know. Common sense says that developing strength anywhere along the chain will improve punching power.
Now, if you had one guy working on mechanics, and another benching, the guy doing mechanics will be hitting harder…but a third guy doing both will hit the hardest.
You really can’t look at this in sections. A punch is a whole body activity, and you really can’t neglect any portion of that system. Benching develops a key segment of that whole body chain.[/QUOTE]
yeah but you dont punch slow with maximal effort. i hear what your getting at, but i think the oly lifts would be more likely to have carry over than benching. the movements are explosive.