[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;766587]
You really can’t look at this in sections. A punch is a whole body activity, and you really can’t neglect any portion of that system.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t read the replies if any to this, but you just hit on why benching dosen’t do much for your punching; The Bench Press may be a multi-joint activity, but it really only engages the shoulders and elbow joints… Olympic Lifts and big Powerlifting movements from the ground such as Deadlift, Clean and Jerk, Push Press, and Clean and Press teach you to utilize the chain seamlessly in the exact order required for a punch, albiet with slightly diffrent mechanics in the shoulder.
Additionally, it’s darned hard to lift explosively in the Bench Press, and not very safe at all. I’ve seen guys trying for plyometric BP before with the spotter almost catching the thrown weight, but very few people do this, and it’s REALLY hard on the very joints you are hoping to train. The consequences of your spotter missing the catch also makes the very notion of this exercise almost absurd.
Then of course there is the final nail in the coffin for BP versus OLY lifts; the fact is that the pectoral muscles engage very little when you are throwing a punch. In fact over flexing the pecs actually causes a loss of power when you throw a punch, just as it would cause a loss of power if you threw a baseball that way. Mechanically the pectoral muscle is only engaged to bring the arm across the body by a fraction of an inch (if that). Any more than that and you are putting the brakes on yourself.
This also makes me think of the so-called “balance” that I hear bodybuilders harping on so often. If the best way to get a big muscular chest is by Bench Pressing, but a big muscular chest is really only good for BPing, then does a big muscular chest really equal a balanced physique?
I look at Gorillas, Orangutans, and Chimpanzes, the strongest most naturally muscular primates in the world, and I see thick ropey arms, defined quads, ripped backs, and muscular, but small pectoral muscles.
I wonder where this notion of “balance” versus “imbalance” comes from? It dosen’t seem to relate to the actual methods of practically using strength and power. It seems to be asthetic.
bodybuilding is all about aesthetics. thick ropey arms, defined quads, broad shoulders and a caved in chest isn’t good, visually. Also, I mentioned before, pushing muscles come in handy while grappling, likely why wrestlers (or at least we did) hundreds of pushups, even though there wasn’t much bench pressing.
to the general public, the defining characteristics of a manly man are broad shoulders, big biceps and a chiseled chest - one that you can see through your shirt. Those are the things that really stand out to people. while working at the club, I can’t count the number of women who squeeze my arms and touch my chest. Likewise, guys will comment on how they wish they had broad shoulders like mine. I have huge legs, but it is more rare for those to get commented on. the women love a nice chest. it is just aesthetically appealing. To have everything except that kills the look.
[QUOTE=SevenStar;766764]bodybuilding is all about aesthetics. thick ropey arms, defined quads, broad shoulders and a caved in chest isn’t good, visually. Also, I mentioned before, pushing muscles come in handy while grappling, likely why wrestlers (or at least we did) hundreds of pushups, even though there wasn’t much bench pressing.
to the general public, the defining characteristics of a manly man are broad shoulders, big biceps and a chiseled chest - one that you can see through your shirt. Those are the things that really stand out to people. while working at the club, I can’t count the number of women who squeeze my arms and touch my chest. Likewise, guys will comment on how they wish they had broad shoulders like mine. I have huge legs, but it is more rare for those to get commented on. the women love a nice chest. it is just aesthetically appealing. To have everything except that kills the look.[/QUOTE]
Amazing how different cultures view what is aesthetic and pleasing.
[QUOTE=GunnedDownAtrocity;766733] benching works the lats pressing power in a way that i dont think weighted dips can match. im not saying the bench is superior, but i also cant say that the difference between the two is a bodybuilding difference. [/QUOTE]
I don’t bench, but if it works the lats, then it most certainly would benifit a martial artist. Where do alot of body kicks hit? The lats. Building the lats up is the first step in being able to take repeated hits/kicks there.
it most certainly works the lats if done with an arch in a powerlifting fashon. a lot of bodybuilders bench this way as well, but some will go flat backed and intentionally take the lats out of the equation to isolate the pecs more which is fine for their sport. it’s certainly not the most direct way to work the lats, but in my opinion very few other exercises can work their pushing power to this degree except for maybe pushing cars/other heavy things. while i love dips, and you’ll use the lats to do heavy dips as well, i dont think they hit the lats with the same intensity. i could be wrong … does andrew, seven, iron, or ford have an opinion?
[QUOTE=Becca;766797]I don’t bench, but if it works the lats, then it most certainly would benifit a martial artist. Where do alot of body kicks hit? The lats. Building the lats up is the first step in being able to take repeated hits/kicks there.[/QUOTE]
you get kicked in the lats a lot? with my elbows down, I don’t. the obliques, but not the lats. kicks to the arm just bounce off of my shoulder, they don’t hit my back / lats, and I don’t turn into them, which would allow them to. Now, if you are in a completely sideways stance then yeah, I can see the lats getting hit a lot.
[QUOTE=SevenStar;766846]you get kicked in the lats a lot? with my elbows down, I don’t. the obliques, but not the lats. kicks to the arm just bounce off of my shoulder, they don’t hit my back / lats, and I don’t turn into them, which would allow them to. Now, if you are in a completely sideways stance then yeah, I can see the lats getting hit a lot.[/QUOTE]
I’m short and I do usually offer my side in hopes they might just get a glancing blow. Side kicks get me just under and behind my armpits. And I don’t put my elbows down; I prefer to take hits in a muscle rather than in a joint. And if they’re slow recoiling, my arm is free to trap the leg.
[QUOTE=Becca;766905]I’m short and I do usually offer my side in hopes they might just get a glancing blow. Side kicks get me just under and behind my armpits. And I don’t put my elbows down; I prefer to take hits in a muscle rather than in a joint. And if they’re slow recoiling, my arm is free to trap the leg. [/QUOTE]
for people who kick with the instep, the elbow down can give them fits. As for catching a kick, it’s easier for me to circle either away from or into the kick and catch it under my arm (roundhouse) or to shuffle back and scoop it (teep and side kick), as opposed to letting it hit me then trying to catch it before he re-chambers / sets his leg down.
[QUOTE=SevenStar;766943]for people who kick with the instep, the elbow down can give them fits. [/QUOTE]
Awch!:eek: Never thought of it that way. I might have to remember that the next time we spar shoes-off.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;767082]I think his point was that the lats ALSO get a workout from the BP.[/QUOTE]
a point which i stand by. i also said it was obviously not the most direct way to work your lats, but that it was the best way to work their pushing power (other than pushing cars or such). any pulling motions, such as weighted chins as you mentioned, would obviously be a more direct way to work the lats. however, the lats do come into play when pushing and if you arent using your lats in the bench press i believe you’re short changing yourself. maybe there was a misunderstanding somewhere, but i thought you implied that weighted dips were a better way to activate the lats in a push motion. while weighted dips are awesome, i dont think they match the bench in getting the lats involved in that type of motion. this is what i meant by working different muscle groups.
[QUOTE=GunnedDownAtrocity;767140]a point which i stand by. i also said it was obviously not the most direct way to work your lats, but that it was the best way to work their pushing power (other than pushing cars or such). any pulling motions, such as weighted chins as you mentioned, would obviously be a more direct way to work the lats. however, the lats do come into play when pushing and if you arent using your lats in the bench press i believe you’re short changing yourself. maybe there was a misunderstanding somewhere, but i thought you implied that weighted dips were a better way to activate the lats in a push motion. while weighted dips are awesome, i dont think they match the bench in getting the lats involved in that type of motion. this is what i meant by working different muscle groups.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know how much lat work is involved in a weighted dip, but I would assuem you are correct about more involvement during the BP.
The angle being better suited for that.
Lifting for Heavy weight with low reps is not good for the joints. Simply because there are less reps being done does not make it easier on the tendons, ligaments, and joints.
Benching can be done explosively if it is done with something that will accommodate for the acceleration of the bar such as bands, or chains, simply having a spotter catch the bad is absolutely not a way to go about attempting to gain anything aside from injuries.
