[QUOTE=SevenStar;773399]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83AEG4wtyRA&mode=related&search=
this particular variation is actually called a submarine kick. If the guy was kicking, and his support leg was kicked, that is called a cut kick.[/QUOTE]
And yet the same guy calls this a cut kick, which is the same video I posted 2 pages back:
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;773493]And yet the same guy calls this a cut kick, which is the same video I posted 2 pages back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlkUlA96g2Y[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, no matter how conditioned, a simple look at the anatomical weakness of the shin bone tells us that hitting with the flat part rather than the edge, is not a good idea.
Sure if all it hits is meat, ideally.
heck Ideally I can take someone out with a flying crotch attack !
Would I recommend it?
Nope.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;773493]And yet the same guy calls this a cut kick, which is the same video I posted 2 pages back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlkUlA96g2Y[/QUOTE]
here’s another one:
http://www.ancientmuaythai.com/school/countertech.htm
scroll down to “grabbing the elephant’s trunk” - they mention that that is a cut kick as well.
here is an explanation of it on bullsh!do:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56317&page=4
I’m not gonna say he’s wrong - different schools call different techniques by different names all the time, but I have never heard of what you posted referred to as a cut kick.
another vid:
http://tdatraining.blogspot.com/search/label/Muay20Thai
[QUOTE=SevenStar;769617]
the spinning hook in muay thai is “crocodile whips its tail”. I can’t recall how to say it in thai…[/QUOTE]
Jarakhe faat haang
-brian
[QUOTE=Becca;769415]Same thing I’ve heard my Sifu saw dozens of times, for every type of kick. “Don’t rise up on the tip toe or you fall on you butt. Don’t float the kick or you’ll connect where you shouldn’t. Either way, you’re dead in a real fight.”
My Sifu’s such an optomist.;)[/QUOTE]
True, although in Muay Thai we are taught to do all of our kicks on the ball of the foot, rotating as the hip of the kicking leg is turned in just prior to making contact (I know this is not the same as what your Sifu said, which was not to stand on the “tip toe”).
This was difficult for me at first because in Northern Shaolin we were always taught to keep our supporting foot rooted, with the heel of the supporting foot firmly on the ground for just about everything. It was a fundamental concept. It took me a long time to un-learn that for the purposes of Muay Thai, but now its second-nature. In fact, most of the time in Muay Thai we stand on the ball of one or both feet.
-brian
Yes, pivoting on the ball of the foot is good; damm hard to spin on a flat foot. The “don’t rise up” was, indead, in reference to those who lift up on the toes to “reach” better. Your foot may get higher in the air, but the first time you connect even a bit, you land on your @ss. Some times you end up there even without contacting anything because you’ve thrown off your natural balance.:eek:
Don’t watch this… if you’ve just eaten.
Kind of back to the subject - this is a pro-fighter who must have kicked full-on thousands of times… It looked like an awkward fall but I wouldn’t have called that one… dunno but it looks like she must’ve already had some hairline fracture or something. And to reiterate: this is very well-trained fighter.
If you want to lessen your risk of injury: quit MA!
Freak accidents happen, no way to prepare for them.
Not really applicable to this thread though…
[QUOTE=Becca;773861]Yes, pivoting on the ball of the foot is good; damm hard to spin on a flat foot. The “don’t rise up” was, indead, in reference to those who lift up on the toes to “reach” better. Your foot may get higher in the air, but the first time you connect even a bit, you land on your @ss. Some times you end up there even without contacting anything because you’ve thrown off your natural balance.:eek:[/QUOTE]
That is another personal preference thing. I have seen MT teachers teach not to be on the ball of the foot. when you throw the thai roundhouse, you are supposed to step out at an angle anyway. if when you step your foot is already turned properly, there is no need to pivot on it.
But if you are stepping into the proper position, you are not piviting your foot, but rather moving it…
What you do once your pivit is complete is usually a stylistic preference. But simple physics says that it is easier to pivit on the ball of the foot than the flat foot.
[QUOTE=SevenStar;773953]That is another personal preference thing. I have seen MT teachers teach not to be on the ball of the foot. when you throw the thai roundhouse, you are supposed to step out at an angle anyway. if when you step your foot is already turned properly, there is no need to pivot on it.[/QUOTE]
Yea, I’ve had a few trainers teach pretty different versions of the same techniques.
The explanation for standing on the ball of the foot is that, even after you have stepped out, your foot is only at about a 45 degree angle. Pivoting on the foot makes it easier to rotate the hip of the kicking leg just before the kick connects. Some of my trainers really exaggerate this pivoting motion when demonstrating it, to make sure that it really gets drilled in to our heads. But when I watch them actually use the kick in an application, they tend not to pivot as much. Stepping out at 45 degrees might be sufficient for some folks to get that hip to rotate, but my hips are not the most flexible so I really like to pivot on that supporting foot to help out the hip rotation as much as possible.
-brian
How do you “roll” your hip over without the pivot of your support foot ?
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;774011]How do you “roll” your hip over without the pivot of your support foot ?[/QUOTE]
I have to pivot on the ball of my supporting foot every time in order to get the kick right. Some people have more hip flexibility, and I think they must also step out with their foot at more than a 45 degree angle to start with. My trainers say to pivot every time. I also feel that starting out square and pivoting gets some momentum for the kick, as opposed to starting out at the correct angle. Maybe SevenStar can elaborate since he has had a trainer tell him not to pivot on the ball of the supporting foot.
(BTW, who was that question addressed to?)
-brian
[QUOTE=boshea;774031]I have to pivot on the ball of my supporting foot every time in order to get the kick right. Some people have more hip flexibility, and I think they must also step out with their foot at more than a 45 degree angle to start with. My trainers say to pivot every time. I also feel that starting out square and pivoting gets some momentum for the kick, as opposed to starting out at the correct angle. Maybe SevenStar can elaborate since he has had a trainer tell him not to pivot on the ball of the supporting foot.
(BTW, who was that question addressed to?)
-brian[/QUOTE]
To anyone that can show me how they roll their hips into a kick without pivoting on the support foot.
[QUOTE=Becca;773962]But if you are stepping into the proper position, you are not piviting your foot, but rather moving it…
What you do once your pivit is complete is usually a stylistic preference. But simple physics says that it is easier to pivit on the ball of the foot than the flat foot.:)[/QUOTE]
I didn’t comment on whether it was easier or harder - that is beside the point. the point is that the pivot is not necessary. you always step with a thai kick. The reason is that a common counter to that kick is a straight right. if you are stepping offline as you kick, there is a greater chance that the kick will miss. consequently, you are taught to step and kick. Even though different teachers have told me to pivot or not pivot, all of them have advocated the initial step.
Watch the following video. It should clear up some of this debate about pivoting the feet.
www.evtv1.com/?itemnum=558 - 80k
Enjoy!!!
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;774033]To anyone that can show me how they roll their hips into a kick without pivoting on the support foot.[/QUOTE]
it depends on the angle of the foot as you step step out with it. problem is, I can forsee knee injury when it is done this way. less pivot = more stress on the knee when you turn the hip.
I am trying to find a clip of a no pivot step. Here is discussion on it on bullshido:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/sitemap/index.php/t-30078-p-4.html
several of them were taught not to pivot also. It is also mentioned in there that bas rutten and cro cop are propoents of not pivoting. I was taught that by a dutch guy, so it kinda falls in line.
EDIT: skimming over it, that is actually a decent thread - they talk about the cross being a common counter, about the arm swing and foot placement. I’m not registered on the site, so I can’t see the vids and pics, but the discussion itself is good.
[QUOTE=boshea;774031]… Maybe SevenStar can elaborate since he has had a trainer tell him not to pivot on the ball of the supporting foot.
(BTW, who was that question addressed to?)
-brian[/QUOTE]
He didn’t say he doesn’t TURN into the kick. He just steps into it rather than piviting into it. Both very good techniques. As has been stated, the difference is in preference, either personal or stylistic. I step into them if I need to close the gap and pivit if I’m already nice and close.
But I do pivit on the ball of my foot for most kicks that require it. The sole exception being a wheel kick. With that one you always, always, always pivit on he heal, no steping into it.
[QUOTE=SevenStar;774072]… the point is that the pivot is not necessary. you always step with a thai kick…[/QUOTE]
Your point was that it is not nesissary. I agree.
My comment was spacifically that piviting on he ball of the foot beets trying to pivit on a flat foot. And that rising up to pivit is not the same thing as trying to kick tippy-toed.