lol, I was gonna ask that too. If the fighters coming out of the school are bad, how can the school be good? and vice-versa.
I really hope you’re not trying to argue that if a school has 20 bad fighters and 2 good fighters that it is a good school.
That’s called an exception to the rule that proves the rule
Oso, by “school” I’m referring to the actual training going on. It’s more of a mix of the students, curriculum, coaches, etc. Mebbe the “formula” that is unique to each school?
I agree with 2, but not 1 or 3.
WD has gone to a good school, trained hard and mauled the correct because it goes to a bad school.
a good school, will indeed produce a quantitiy of better fighters that is larger then a bad school. I never said that the school had nothing to do with it, I just think it’s a smal part of the pie. There are quite a few really good fighters out there who don’t go to any school, or do any sort of training but starting fights.
That’s called an exception to the rule that proves the rule
again, bzzzzt, that’s too easy to claim that those fighters are an exception to the rule and so therefore proves only good schools produce good fighters.
If the idea is to find a place where you can become a good fighter, you tend to go with the averages.
I’m sure that you can point out numerous examples of people who went to small unranked colleges and became successful. That doesn’t make those schools better than Yale.
KFM = Black Hole
Oso, by “school” I’m referring to the actual training going on. It’s more of a mix of the students, curriculum, coaches, etc. Mebbe the “formula” that is unique to each school?
‘formula’ sounds good.
but two words are being used interchangeably on this thread and they don’t always mean the same thing.
I’m sure that you can point out numerous examples of people who went to small unranked colleges and became successful. That doesn’t make those schools better than Yale.
sure, and not everyone can go to yale. from what I understand you have to be a “good” student to go to that sort of school.
True, but people do flunk out of Yale every year. That doesn’t make Yale a bad school.
True, but people do flunk out of Yale every year. That doesn’t make Yale a bad school.
Thats true as well but the standards are set higher for the better students. Those students aren’t flunking out because of the school but because of their inability to keep up or their inability to adapt to the environment.
Yale called and wants it’s metaphor back.
Originally posted by red5angel
Thats true as well but the standards are set higher for the better students. Those students aren’t flunking out because of the school but because of their inability to keep up or their inability to adapt to the environment.
And the result - an elite environment retains elite students! Like we’ve been saying, a good school has good students.
WHat age you started.
And the purity and acient lineage of your style(s).
But most importantly the school.
Originally posted by 3rdrateIMAkilla
and the purity and acient lineage of your style(s).
You’re giving me the giggles.
Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
You’re giving me the giggles.
And I got the $hits!
Get it?
$hits and giggles?
Oh nevermind
seven … i can see your point with “any art can be made to work” (i see both side of the fence on that one), but what’s more important than the fighters?
[i]1. The most important variables in a conflict are the fighters.[/i]
To me, the most important variable is circumstance.
Are we in a bar? Am I drunk? Is he? Do I have my boys with me? Does he? What about weapons? Does this dude train? What does this guy really want from me anyway? How dangerous is he? etc. ?
These are all things you cannot control.
[i]2. No art is complete.[/i]
True but…
A school can be very complete indeed. It is not uncommon for MMA schools to teach Muay Thai, BJJ, and wrestling as both seperate arts AND as a unified whole.
The traditional systems are a little different because at the time, there was no free sharing of information. Take advantage of that! It’s just a good idea to understand that when evaluating both the strengths and weaknesses of what you do.
This isn’t too much of an issue with me because it can be overcome easily enough.
[i]3. Any style can be used effectively - it’s not the style, it’s the person using it.[/i]
This is what we’ve been discussing.
That’s my $ .86
And a valuable 86c it is. Nice post.
Anyway, on the whole good school/bad students thing - I like to consider my school a good one. But we have bad students. When I train with some, there’s nothing there. No resistance, no effort, no intent. If I really wanted to, I could go straight through them. But it seems really difficult to get them to change. Here’s an example - a young guy, about 13 or 14 who was my senior when I started but progresses slowly so now he trains with my little group. His skills are deficient, to put it nicely. I’m sure when he reaches my age he’ll be good with the head start he has, but right now I don’t like training with him because neither of us gets anything out of it. On a better note, the senior ranks seem to have weeded out most people who aren’t committed. There are still some that obviously apply themselves better than others, but the majority are skilled fighters and hard nuts.
Another point is something one of the teachers once told me - if he tells you something and you don’t get it but are obviously making an effort he’ll keep trying to teach you. But if he says something and you ignore it, he’ll try one more time. If you keep ignoring it, he’ll concentrate on the other student who’s making the effort. So it may kind of polarise the good student/bad student thing a big, rather than lots of average students.
yeah i have some thoughts too
the kantele wasnt really created by them gods, like the legends say
"Truly they lie, they talk utter nonsense
Who say that music reckon that the kantele
Was fashioned by a god
Out of a great pike’s shoulders
From a water-dog’s hooked bones:
It was made from the grief
Moulded from sorrow
Its belly out of hard days
Its soundboard from endless woes
Its strings gathered from torments
And its pegs from other ills
So it will not play, will not rejoice at all
Music will not play to please
Give off the right sort of joy
For it was fashioned from cares
Moulded from sorrow."
Originally posted by red5angel
nah, you can have a bad school and have good students anyway. You can also have a good school and have bad students.
You can also have 2 good schools that seem the same and put out great students, but the technique may be used differently by students of each.
Last year I had the opportunity to visit a Pai Lum school in California. Same coriculum, same techniques, forms, drills. Even the decore was almost the same. But it felt different. Even between the 4 Pai Lum qwoons here in Colorado, it feels just a bit different.
Having said that… I believe a bad school will only hinder you if you expect to have every step of you development handed to you. If you tack the inisiative to better yourself, you can make the technique work. But this is more of the “hard work” principle, not in and of itself.
- Any style can be used effectively - it’s not the style, it’s the person using it.
I must respectfully disagree.
Stupid firewall!:mad: It won’t let me see 2/3ds of the stuff you guys link too.