Guandong Quan Mystery

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Shaolin Kung Fu
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FOUND THEM!!! (Well, Sal did anyway)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFtR_0Sg9Dc&feature=relmfu

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Here is the Guandongquan from the Ruan village Shaolin Nanyuan sect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQXItlNmqA

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[QUOTE=Royal Dragon;1130350]Hello!
There is a persistent rummer that the Guan Dong quan, and GuanXi Quan of Zhao Kuang yin (along with a 36 posture set, and a 366 one) are preserved in the Taoist lines at Wudang. I am looking for those 4 sets.[/QUOTE]

In the Wudang Hong Quan system which isn’t practiced in Wudang and likely wasn’t from Wudang the Guan Xi Jia corresponds to the 366 hands sets and the Guan Dong Jia corresponds to the 36 roads set.

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[QUOTE=Howard;1152482]Really ? Wudang Hong Quan is from the greater Xuzhou area in the central plains. such as Feng county and Peixian county - it is likely younger than Liuhe Quan, Yanqing Quan and Shanxi Hong Quan which have same named forms.

The Legend: During the Song dynasty there was some Wudang Mt Daoist lay disciple who was surnamed ‘Hong’ and had apparently been motivated by the stories of Song Taizu’s armies which would be split into East, west etc…then the boxing took attributes along those lines…

The Closer reality: Zhang Dongshu (1856-1933) was fond of MA when he was young and studied with his father Zhang Wanqing (an expert of so-called Wudang Hong Quan) and learnt from many teachers/boxer friends (in those days many boxers around the Yihe tuan and other rebellious activities) … afterwhich he established the Wudang Hongquan system.[/QUOTE]

Honestly no one knows how old the style is.
However it was not made up by Zhang Dongshu and his Father. Wudang Da Hong Quan is only one 4 very closely related branches of Da Hong Quan practiced in the Peixian area. Each one of those branches comes from a totally different source, yet all of them have similar versions of the same core forms.

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For practical reasons:

Here’s all the video on Youtube I could find of the Quanxi Jia and Quandong Jia sets (most posted by our friends here):

Quanxi Jia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFtR_0Sg9Dc

Guandong Jia

Shaolin version:
(Shaolin Nanyuan)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQXItlNmqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM__IOqodds

Related sets

Six Step Frame (Liubu Jia)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLnGFI8lTtw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvFvl0HzlpE

San Huang Bang version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kJ8unUIlgM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfOS9JLz_EQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNGPHrvY5Oo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-sQ7T5a9pI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R4mAhyMnYY

Wudang Da Hong Quan version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qTvknlFeoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f5rFcABOyo

Zhao Hong Quan / Er Hong Quan / Shan Huang Bang versions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iPTBPPGL7A

Taiping Jia

Wudang Da Hong Quan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAhQFXaNFso

Lao Hong Quan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXVwsJfi5gY

(same set in 3D)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb4EKX1eMgA

Taizu Hong Quan ( From the Xuzhou (Suchow) area of Jiangsu province. This folk martial art style is popularly practiced in Southern Shandong, Northern Anhui and Jiangsu provinces.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NBtBqw8jPY

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Boy, have we ever come a long way!! I remember when these forms were just rummurs and we were not sure they even existed!!

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[QUOTE=Tea Serpent;1239607]Honestly no one knows how old the style is.
However it was not made up by Zhang Dongshu and his Father. Wudang Da Hong Quan is only one 4 very closely related branches of Da Hong Quan practiced in the Peixian area. Each one of those branches comes from a totally different source, yet all of them have similar versions of the same core forms.[/QUOTE]

Well, it seems these arts are preserving the fighting methods and over all body of techniques that we know come from the Song army. Which is the same stuff from the Tang dynasty for the most part.

So the form choreography, whenever that was done, is basically a box of fighting that goes back to the Tang Dynasty at least.

This is really, really old, primordial stuff we are looking at…yet it is surprisingly advanced. That means the over all body of techniques, footwork and body methods has to be way older than Tang, for sure. This stuff was not new then either…or it would be way cruder looking.

It appears all over the central “Yellow River Valley” area predominantly; but it’s found as far south as Indonesia too. It is taught under a large variety of names, and just as large a variety of curriculums contained in an uncountable number of forms.

My persuite of all things stemming from Zhao Kuang yin made me see that his material was just the tip of the iceburg. It was just his favorite stuff preserved in some forms to document what he liked.

In reality, there was a massive, massive sea of this art being practiced in every imaginable fashion.

Each school of it has a different wrapper, and curriculum for teaching it, but inside the box, it’s all the same skill sets.

My best guess, is that military Generals, who survived a lifetime of battles and finally retired from service, went home and taught for a living. When forms became from common, each choreographed his own sets. So you had all these schools popping up back then, that “Appear” unique on the outside, but inside they are not.

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then it happened again when the troops of the southern song (Yue Fei’s soldiers) came home and they spread their own martial arts.

That’s the next major dividing line. Moving out of Hong Quan into something called Xing Quan, “shapes boxing”.

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[QUOTE=Sal Canzonieri;1243536]then it happened again when the troops of the southern song (Yue Fei’s soldiers) came home and they spread their own martial arts.

That’s the next major dividing line. Moving out of Hong Quan into something called Xing Quan, “shapes boxing”.[/QUOTE]

Very true!