grappling/submission from a tiger's perspective

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
41

I’m sorry Mr. HW8 lol… most of the time i just laugh at you. you try you.. do …

anyways,

How many "decades"of training did it take you to realize that? Lol

so now your asking me my background? from my understanding that’s a mystery around here with you as well. :stuck_out_tongue:

Isn’t the purpose of life to look at the bigger picture? And it is not “my” bigger picture as the bigger picture is constant. Think about it!

actions are the real measure, something you are probably unfamiliar with.

From my past interaction with you I have realized that you have an aversion to the use of the word, master, but using the word, “Dude”? COME ON!!! LOL

Just call him sifu instead of “dude” or is this a modern scientifically approved way of addressing kung fu teachers that I have not heard about? LOL

haha don’t like dude? modern scientifically approved waja majiger? yeah keep your voodoo to yourself. I have no need to call anyone sifu/master/teacher until they have taught or given information worth interest to me. and i still wouldn’t call them master.

My “good stuff” is incorporated in my kung fu training. If yours is not then please go where your “good stuff” is.

i do every day thank you very much. :slight_smile:

Actually, what you need to do is to NOT address your posts to me because I prefere to talk about authentic kung fu training and we all know that you will end up with a confused glazed look on your face every time you read about the more unusual kung fu practices. And of course, none of us want to worry any of your loved ones who may stand witness to your hopeless confusion…LOL

there you go again trying to tell me what “I need to do” as for the confused glazed look I believe everyone you talk to about your authentic kung fu aquires this glazed confused look. “US” meaning singular? your in your own little universe.

You would if you were intelligent.

I would if i didn’t already know the crap you spew from your mouth.

I spout “dogma”? LOL
Read my post to Ray Pina and see if you see any “dogma” there…LOL

haha when don’t you. :slight_smile:

Why should i sell anything to you? In the past I presented a TCMA training methodology that was alien to you. You more or less said “if I don’t know about it then it does not exist”. I more or less replied that you were clueless and that there are a lot more unknown (to you) concepts where that came from. End of the story!!! I am not selling a school, DVDs etc. So don’t be so confused go and sit down and meditate using some internal breathing to cool down. This advice was free and there is not price tag to it. LOL

haha you are clueless to your own malcontent. It’s fine most people like you are. You presented to me a mythical trip down your martial arts world. no thanks I can see what you have to offer and it’s nothing i haven’t seen from the 5 and dime mcdojo down the street. And i will reply that not everyone wants what you have to offer!!! I feel sorry for any student you ever teach. all the ninja/teleporting/dim mak crap this poor poor person will have to sift through to learn that he needs to go do some cross training. :slight_smile:
and this advise isn’t free everyone has to pay for it in the real world.

Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76
you’ve already shown me enough of your “philosophy” to really not care for an intelligent conversation with you.

Is that why you composed your idiotic post above? LOL!

is that why you compose your idiotic posts every day? no mine was to express my apprehention with what you are totting as MA’s. It’s clear to everyone that you are just a hoodini of the MA’s world.

42

[QUOTE=TenTigers;973512]Excellent post overall, however I will take issue with the last statement.
In our Hung-Ga, the breathing in each animal, along with their respective sounds serve a purpose.
The breathing in Dragon is akin to the throaty hiss heard in saamjien, and serves the same purpose, packing the breath/organs, and releasing pressures, allowing the practitioner to absorb strikes to the body.
The “Tsst” in Snake is a quick, short release of portions of breath, while maintaining a reserve. As one of my former Sifus (Michael Manganiello) said, “They are very miserly with their breath.” One breath, several strikes.
The “Wah” sound of the Tiger originates in the chakra of the solar plexus, and according to the noi-gung I was taught, is used to release anger. The “FFU” sound used on the Single Tiger, provides the float,sink,swallow,spit technique used in that movement.
The “Op” sound of the Crane is a quick release,used together with a sinking of the body (we make the sound more like a breathed, “hup,” and do not use the “OOOP” sound you see many do in demos-frankly, I have no freakin idea what they are doing) This helps release the bin-ging, or whipping energy for the specific strikes.
The Leopard uses short,quick breaths, as you would use for a jab, and longer breaths for the long armed strikes.
Nothing mystical or theatrical.
Then again, this is the way my Gung-Fu is played, and might be different than what others do.
. Muay Thai uses different sounds as well. Some people go, “oish,” some hiss, some go “Aaaghht”, etc. depending on the technique and school.[/QUOTE]

Oh, yes, I agree, gut I was referring to the “over done” stuff on the video, sorry it wasn’t clear.

43

[QUOTE=TenTigers;973512]
The breathing in Dragon is akin to the throaty hiss heard in saamjien, and serves the same purpose, packing the breath/organs, and releasing pressures, allowing the practitioner to absorb strikes to the body…
The “Wah” sound of the Tiger originates in the chakra of the solar plexus, and according to the noi-gung I was taught, is used to release anger…

Nothing mystical or theatrical.
[/QUOTE]

I could see how some could take the above as at least slightly mystical.

This got me thinking though. In karate I trained the Ki yell like everyone else, it was n my forms and I was forced to do it… but I never liked it. When I get mad fighting or on sport, I tend to press my lips together, internalize it and let it out in my strike. That’s just my preference. Always has been.

The last few months some Tai Kown Do guys have been training adjacent to us and there’s this teenage (18/19) black belt who makes the funniest noise, very Bruce Lee like, when kicking pads. Whatever, but my point is, I have found it dangerous to have my mouth open at all when in striking range. One shot to chin and there can be trouble.

How do you incorporate these sounds into combat?

Also, I understand the importance of breath control for taking and delivering strikes, but aren’t sounds a product of the throat, unrelated? I’m not sure of that which is why I ask. I;'m looking for education on the subject.

44

Getting hit with your mouth open = broken jaw.
There is combat breathing and “development” breathing.
Some systems breathe through the nose in combat some choose the “clenched” teeth variation.
Very few “combat oriented” systems advocate “open” mouth breathing in a fight.

45

That’s what I was wondering, how one goes about making these tiger, dragon, snake and whooping crane noises while in contact range.

46

[QUOTE=Ray Pina;973625]That’s what I was wondering, how one goes about making these tiger, dragon, snake and whooping crane noises while in contact range.[/QUOTE]

Very carefully.
:smiley:

The sounds teach us how the body “feels” when done correctly, after that you can make the body do that “feel” without the “correct sounds”, with “combat breathing”.

47

Yum Cha and Sanjuro, The noises are audible in the form,are to teach the student how to breathe, but when understood, they can be done without the sound, and with the mouth closed. You feel it in your body. Just as in the Tiet Sien Kuen.
Ray-different sounds resonate in different places in the body. If you are doing kiai from the throat, as we see in tournaments, then you create tension there. Not healthy. Even singers are told to sing from their diaphragm. The Kiai is supposed to come from the dan tien (hara) NOT from the throat.
As far as “feeling it in your body,” we all know when we have tension in different parts of our body, and we can feel when and where our breath is labored, forced, constricted. It comes with experience.
The “portioned” breath and striking on the inhale is a difficult skill to master, at least for me. I can do it well when I practice, but when I am going at it hard with my teacher, I still find it difficult to maintain. Too much going on. Meanwhile, he can go at it with me, and then three other guys in a row, without losing wind.

Ray, I can see where the Chakra stuff can be seen as mystical, but it is a physical thing. Emotions are felt in the body.
You know how your throat tightens up when you’re mad or frustrated, and you get that lump in your throat, and that knot in your stomach. Same thing.
The hei-gung teaches you to become aware of these and you learn how to release the pressures, and dissipate the breath along with the anger. This can heal, as negative emotions wreak havoc on your immune system, raising hom0cystine levels,and lowers t-cells.
If done incorrectly, it could do just the opposite, which is why they always caution people to do this under proper guidance.
But it’s purely physiological, and not mystical.

48

completely off the original topic

but in Tit Sin - you can do the “sounds” without doing them. Since this isn’t reality anyway, it can be done “in your mind” with the same effect IF you train it with that mindset…

did I just freak you out? :wink:

49

[QUOTE=TenTigers;973631]
But it’s purely physiological, and not mystical.[/QUOTE]
IMPO, mystical arrises out of a lack of knowledge regarding the function of physiological (and by extension the environmental)

healing sounds “work” because they interact w/the autonomic nervous system in a manner that is at once straight forward, but at the same time operates in context of complex systems theory - meaning that input / output is not always a 1:1 direct correlation - it is yet another example of how the body / organism can take in a variety of different inputs (sound, movement, herbs, manual therapy etc.) and use them as fulcra to leverage itself back towards homeostasis (also known as regression towards the mean / norm);

50

[QUOTE=lkfmdc;973633]
did I just freak you out? ;)[/QUOTE]

no, that got taken care of in the first few minutes about 25 years ago…:stuck_out_tongue:

51

The ignorance = mystical thing is quite obvious if you stop to think about it

I learned quite a lot of internal
I can tell you that the good stuff does in fact “work”
Of course, “work” is a subjective definition
I also can’t for the life of me explain the psyiology of what is “working”\

But I took that stuff, sat down with Taai Gihk Yaan and he, because he has the training, can explain what is going on, why it’s going on, etc

IN the past, I could have said “oh, it’s magical gummy bear drops” and I can tell you, some students would buy it hook line and sinker…

52

“But Mom, he said they were magic beans!”
yep. Still holds true today.:rolleyes:

53

[QUOTE=lkfmdc;973633]completely off the original topic

but in Tit Sin - you can do the “sounds” without doing them. Since this isn’t reality anyway, it can be done “in your mind” with the same effect IF you train it with that mindset…

did I just freak you out? ;)[/QUOTE]

That’s what I ultimately learned to do without being taught. I know how to do that “tightening” in my stomach (Dan Tien) to take a blow. I know how to sink the breath and ribs to generate power.

Also related, a hmmmmmm vibrated from my stomach all the way up to my slightly g clenched lips when I’m really going for a escape or pass.

Is there any science on this? Like I said, these were things that just expressed themselves after about 5 to 7 years of karate. All totaled I put about 10 into the system. But that might be the curriculum. The teaching it without teaching it. The doing, forms, sparring, training produced it… just thinking out loud here

54

[QUOTE=Ray Pina;973659]That’s what I ultimately learned to do without being taught. I know how to do that “tightening” in my stomach (Dan Tien) to take a blow. I know how to sink the breath and ribs to generate power.

Also related, a hmmmmmm vibrated from my stomach all the way up to my slightly g clenched lips when I’m really going for a escape or pass.

Is there any science on this? Like I said, these were things that just expressed themselves after about 5 to 7 years of karate. All totaled I put about 10 into the system. But that might be the curriculum. The teaching it without teaching it. The doing, forms, sparring, training produced it… just thinking out loud here[/QUOTE]imagine that… the master emerged from within and you discovered things for yourself without being formally taught by anyone else. :stuck_out_tongue:

55

[QUOTE=Ray Pina;973659]Is there any science on this? Like I said, these were things that just expressed themselves after about 5 to 7 years of karate. All totaled I put about 10 into the system. But that might be the curriculum. The teaching it without teaching it. The doing, forms, sparring, training produced it… just thinking out loud here[/QUOTE]

that’s really it. Certain things are learned only through time, development, refinement, understanding. The “secret” of Martial Arts is just that. PUT IN THE TIME.

56

[QUOTE=TenTigers;973672]PUT IN THE TIME.[/QUOTE]imagine that… time in energy.

57

[QUOTE=Ray Pina;973659]That’s what I ultimately learned to do without being taught. I know how to do that “tightening” in my stomach (Dan Tien) to take a blow. I know how to sink the breath and ribs to generate power.

Also related, a hmmmmmm vibrated from my stomach all the way up to my slightly g clenched lips when I’m really going for a escape or pass.

Is there any science on this? Like I said, these were things that just expressed themselves after about 5 to 7 years of karate. All totaled I put about 10 into the system. But that might be the curriculum. The teaching it without teaching it. The doing, forms, sparring, training produced it… just thinking out loud here[/QUOTE]

MA is a personal journey Bro, glad you figured that out.
There is a time t be taught and a time to learn.

58

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;973675]MA is a personal journey Bro, glad you figured that out.[/quote]it’s all a personal journey…

There is a time t be taught and a time to learn.
a time to be like water and a time to burn. :slight_smile:

59

[QUOTE=uki;973676]it’s all a personal journey…
a time to be like water and a time to burn. :)[/QUOTE]

Hippie !
:stuck_out_tongue:

60

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;973682]Hippie !
:stuck_out_tongue:

[/QUOTE]wow. now that would be a sight to behold while taking a journey on magical mushrooms. :smiley: