I moved a lot of threads off our Tiger Claws KungFuMagazine.com Championship & Shark City Nationals to this one because that was getting distracting. It makes for a slightly uneven archival read now, but if tangential threads bother you, wtf are you doing reading a web forum.
San shou is illegal in san jose? I think someone forgot to tell cung le:D
Cung knows - beleive me, we’ve talked about it.
It’s not illegal to practice sanshou. It’s illegal to hold sanshou competitions. The California State Athletic Commission banned both professional and amateur sanshou and muay thai kickboxing events. Muay thai has regained approval, but sanshou is still banned. I discuss this in our new issue, the March April 2009, which just hit the newsstands.
It’s kinda goofy that sanshou and muay thai aren’t legal yet they have mma fights, what’s up with that? Is there some politic involved here:confused:
[QUOTE=Shaolindynasty;912030]It’s kinda goofy that sanshou and muay thai aren’t legal yet they have mma fights, what’s up with that? Is there some politic involved here:confused:[/QUOTE]
Naaaahhhhh, not CA. That bastion of leftist liberal feel good laws that don’t makes sense. Surely you jest.
[QUOTE=Shaolindynasty;912030]It’s kinda goofy that sanshou and muay thai aren’t legal yet they have mma fights, what’s up with that? Is there some politic involved here:confused:[/QUOTE]
Well something is fishy for sure.
Muay Thai is legal again now
They rallied and were legalized. The article I mentioned above is about Female Fury, which was a Muay Thai match. I don’t see any movement from the Sanshou circles here to get the ban lifted. It would take some legal fees to put up that fight and nobody has the cash. It’s a shame really.
Right you are about there needing to be some legal money behind the push if Sanshou folks wanted to get legal. Seeing as how there have been several names who took the approach that if they couldn’t run Sanshou they would “run it” into the ground, there is really no one who is recognized as a leader there that would be willing or able to put up such funds. (Cung Le is a pro now and not a Sanshou person per se any longer).
More and more states are doing this. In Texas, it is not exactly illegal but it does require folks to be properly licensed. Here, it is more a matter of separating the fighters and promoter from fees instead of the public safety idea. In California, they have always paid just a bit more than lip service to that old public safety idea…it is not JUST about the money.
However, if point sparring is allowed, continuous sparring with light contact would probably be legal as well. Of course, the contact aspect has to be downplayed…but if anyone reading this has ever competed in point sparring and NEVER had contact, give that man a CEEGAR…
The distinction between those who get hit and those who do not is widening… and you got to wonder how much of a hand the Boxing folks wanting to protect their rice bowl had to do with this.
Cung was the only one really throwing sanshou events around here
Cung’s 2007 Art of War went sour with the USAWKF Team trial situation. He spoke about in our 2008 July/August cover story Cung Le Brings Sanshou into the Cage. Given how the sanshou went for America in 2008, well, hopefully you all read Beijing in their own words: American Athletes Reflect on the Wushu Tournament Beijing By Elly Duchamp in our 2009 January/February Shaolin Special.
BTW, our latest issue, the 2009 March/April Wudang Special, is on the newsstands. I have two articles that grapple with the state of sanshou in this issue: Female Fury, which was mentioned above, and Art of War VII, which is about the US Open International Martial Arts Championship XII. I also have an article about the state of kickboxing in China titled Wulin Feng: USA Versus China. I’m working on another addressing that topic right now for our next issue, and have two pieces on sanshou in there already. That issue will drop on 4/7/2009, so stay tuned.
Meanwhile, who’s coming to our tournament?
Gene’s coverage of the CA Sanshou/San Da situation
Gene wrote a very nice piece about the situation with Sanshou/San Da with a female perspective in the newest issue (GO OUT AND BUY IT!)
He raises an interesting point at the beginnning, ie that CA banned BOTh sanshou/sanda AND muay thai yet the Thai community fought and got it leagalized again while the sanshou folks just packed it up, depressing :o
That is typical. You have to have some folks there that are interested in the sport or art and not just being the leader and their own rice bowl.
Thanks lkfmdc, I do appreciate that from you
We’re struggling to keep Sanshou going here in America, but the legal/political situation in CA was a heavy blow. It’s what I was talking about in our Tiger Claw’s KungFuMagazine.com Championship & Shark City Nationals thread.
And for those of you who want to know which issue we’re talking about, it’s this one: March/April 2009 Wudang Special. I may merge this thread with that someday.
Back OT for just a moment…
I’m using lkfmdc’s Gene’s coverage of the CA Sanshou/San Da situation thread to ttt this one. We can take up discussion of the state of sanshou in the state of CA there.
May I ask why the decision was taken to ban SanShou in Ca? Forgive me for not being able to buy the magazine - life here in the Black Forest affords little in the way of English reading material, let alone English Kung Fu reading material.
Seems a strange decision.
Apparently, according to a conversation I had with the former head (Garcia?) of the commission, there is a law on the books RE kickboxing dating back to the PKA/American kb period that says you can not throw in a kickboxing match.
When I spoke to Garcia, well over a year ago, he said they wanted to change the law so they could do both San Shou/San Da and Muay Thai. Now, thanks to Gene, we know that Thai is back… so what happened with San Da?
Gene, write more on this, then surely we will buy the magazine to read more 
What killed San Shou/San Da in the US? It’s an interesting question, I can give you a quick summary of some of the issues
Ironically, san shou/san da (let’s just say sanshou for now) was first made illegal in NY. The law that made MMA illegal was used to close down pretty much all martial arts events here for almost 2 years.
The two most progressive hubs for Sanshou were NY and San Jose (Cung Le obviously). At the time both NY and San Jose were pushing both amateur sanshou tournaments and starting pro leagues. We both figured it was going to take 3 to 5 years to get pro going.
After doing my third pro event, I found out sanshou was illegal. It took us two years just to get amateur approved, pro is STILL ILLEGAL
The NY commission then hammered us again by closing many venues to us because of illegal MMA fights, ie close down anyplace that can do a martial art event so no one can do an illegal one
IN San Jose, Cung still represented hope to all of us. But it seemed that just as we were pushing the sport forward, those who had once controlled the sport tried to sabatoge us. IE if they couldn’t be total dictators and control everything, they’d rather destroy it
I’m not naming any names of course (shawn liu and anthony goh)
Three years in a row the old powers tried to schedule something to conflict with Cung’s event. I know it discouraged and tired out all of us, the entire community. Then the legal ban hit in CA.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;916871]
I’m not naming any names of course .[/QUOTE]
I knew where this thread was going to hit this point…at some point or another haha…
ahh
Sanda is still in limbo…
… and I’m still on the story. The sanda situation in America and worldwide is of great concern to me personally (as well as professionally, of course).
It would take a lot of energy for sanda to rally back to a legal status in CA and no one is stepping forward. Due to the predominance of MMA, it’s hard to market. Frankly, few really remember what sanda is and few really care anymore. Given that hurdle, it’s hard to make an event pay out. Cung has been the most successful throwing his Art of War events - we’ve covered pretty much all of those. But now, he can’t do the sanda, so that sort of defeats the purpose of it all.
lkfmdc is right - one of the the big problems with sanda is throws. That’s exacerbated by the leitai, but then most people are running sanda in a ring nowadays anyway.
[QUOTE=Exadon;916878]I knew where this thread was going to hit this point…at some point or another haha…
ahh[/QUOTE]
I hope you know not to take it too personally 
I already told you I like him personally and he’s a great teacher, I just don’t like his politics
Gene, you really should do a history of San Shou in the US, it’s fascinating and has as much politics as anything! It might even be “controversial”