url]http://www.meihua.ee/video/fights_november_2004.wmv (big 34mb)
http://www.meihua.ee/video/koong-sao-may.wmv (8 mb)
http://www.meihua.ee/video/wt_udar.wmv (7 mb)
http://www.meihua.ee/video/koong-sao-tournament.wmv (6 mb)These seem better than any other wing chun fight videos no prearranged drills here.
We train like this here in Detroit can’t find any other Wing Chun school in mich. that trains realistic. We also invite other styles to spar with, plenty of full contact karate schools here. I will be posting some full contact fights from our school against TKD.
I would rather see lighter contact and more technique. From what I could see these guys are just brawling. By brawling I mean random lefts and rights in a row with many of them missing. To get their techniques to a higher level they should work a little lighter until techniques are developed. Then go harder.
I respect the fact that they are throwing hard. But that is all they are doing. I didn’t see one instance when there was a somewhat recognizable wing chun technique. Just wild punches and kicks with no set up.
These clips have been around for a while. They are better then all the other wingchun clips I have seen. But you need to mix intensity with technique.
Two thoughts immediately spring to mind (neither is a comment on the contents of the clips):
- To demonstrate how you “train”, you post clips from a different lineage school located halfway around the world even though there are clips on the detroit school’s site which supposedly show how you train in the motor city already.
Why is it that people whom you have never met and with whom you not affiliated can show how you do things at your school better than you and the students and instructors at your school can?
- In these clips, every opponent is wearing headgear. In another thread you state: “Full-face caged helmets almost always result in this type of exchange. You can’t do damage to each other, so you completely throw defense out of the window. And since you can’t hurt the other guys, you just try to “score” more by hitting him more times than he hits you. It’s what my club calls a “Pillow Fight”. People just rapidly swing at each other.”
How do you reconcile the clips as “realistic” training with your obvious scorn that the headgear will make for a “Pillow Fight” ?
:rolleyes:
You can have the greatest tecnique, but in a real fight thats what it look like take a look at some full contact k-1 fight they are not perfect techniques.
With all due respect I know what a real fight looks and feels like very well. The only reason why some real fights would look like the video clip is that the people fighting are usually untrained.
I have seen many K-1 bouts. I enjoy them a great deal. K-1 looked nothing like the brawling in those videos. In k-1 they use techniques that are set up and tested over time. They look for openings. They throw combinations to different areas. Every punch isn’t a comitted strike. Or just a left, right, left with out thinking. They conserve their energy until the right time then they explode.
I guess my point is these guys are headed in the right direction. If I were ever in the area I would drop by to spar anyway. But they need to slow down to develop actual technique. Otherwise they are just brawling in my eyes. Yes that alone makes them better then most wingchun people. The key word being most.
I’ve actually seen these clips before. I think they’re pretty decent actually. Where some may say there’s not a lot of technique, I would agree to a point. However, I think the clips demonstrate very well the brutal nature of wing chun fighting. I mean, did you see the stomping of the guy on the ground, and imagine if they didn’t have protection.
A fight happens so quickly, if you have the opportunity to deflect or redirect an incoming force and throw something back, I think Wing Chun has accomplished its goal. Sometimes you may pull off a perfect technique, sometimes you may just have good timing. I’m sure I’ve been able to execute a perfect pak sao/chuen sao against a jab, and I’m sure I’ve also attempted the same technique that looked like some sort of poor sumo wrestling. One technique I saw on the ground(rear choke I believe) looked good enough to get the guy to tap out! Look at chi sao for example, you don’t always see perfect technique(bon sao, tan sao, fook sau etc etc) there but you do see blindingly fast attacks when there’s an opening. Just my thoughts.
Thanks for the clips Xindu!
No, I would say the persons there are doing WC for maybe 6months. Put two untrained against each other and they will fight the same way.
The fighting spirit is there only the WT/WC is missing
Yea you are right where are all these Wing Chun master’s students full contact videos so everybody can see what good wing chun is.
Didn’t watch the videos, so not directly commenting on them, but: In general: If you are going to just fight like some pathetic, poor drunken slob; why bother “training”?
Kung Fu cowboys lets see your skilled full contact videos
LOL. With all due respect Xindu, by the cumulative nature of your posts it looks like you need a soapbox to stand on. Oops … nevermind … guess you found one. 
Regards,
- kj
I unfortunately cannot return to the astral plane to retrieve them. (Expired permit)
Not to justify the flame baiting going on (what is it with Michigan people? Phil, you guys got something in the water over there? 
), but since I already shared this on two of the mailing lists I might as well share it here as well to contribute another take on “full contact” fighting to the thread -
These are a few clips I converted over from dvd footage of my student’s fight at the Milwaukee Rumble this past February. Full contact amateur “tough man” competition. Three one minute rounds, 45 seconds rest in between each round. Kicks and punches allowed, though not to the legs. Yes, those are giant 16oz. gloves on their hands. Consequently, I worked on him expressing the different energies (pak, tan, fuk, gum, etc.) via a fist shape. I’m including explinations of
each clip.
http://www.hanweionline.org/wingchun/tyroneknockdown1.mpg
Opening exchange, opponent tries to kick with a lead leg 45 degree kick (Thai type) up in Ty’s ribs. Tyrone gum’s and overextends his opponent’s kick (kick never get’s near him) then proceeds to knock him down.
http://www.hanweionline.org/wingchun/tyroneknockdown2.mpg
Tyrone enters in quick with a pak to his opponent’s guard to draw a reaction, opponent tries to stiff arm and then hit Ty. Tyrone knocks him throught he ropes. Most of the fight was like this, which is why I broke it down to the videos you see here.
[URL=
http://www.hanweionline.org/wingchun/tyroneknockdown3.mpg]
http://www.hanweionline.org/wingchun/tyroneknockdown3.mpg
Opponent comes in with a lunging front kick, Tyrone stop hits it. Tyrone continues in, opponent tries to return the favor with a stop hit. Tyrone sweeps it to the side with a gaun sao followed by a punch with the same hand to try and intercept his opponent’s offbalanced attempt at a hook. Then Ty lops the opponent’s arm with his punching arm to keep it extended while he hammers over the top (lop da). More punching exchanges and the opponent goes through the ropes again.
http://www.hanweionline.org/wingchun/tyroneknockdown4.mpg
Opponent tries to punch, Tyrone angle steps forward to slip it and proceeds to wrap his arm over the punching arm from underneath (lan) while hitting the opponent in the face with a punch (which is obscured in the camera angle). Uses gum at the opponent’s right elbow with a short power punch to the head that winds up turning his opponent and doubling him in to the ropes. You have to slow it down to see everything, otherwise it happens so fast and looks like Ty is just shoving him at the head and turning him.
http://www.hanweionline.org/wingchun/tyroneknockdown5.mpg
Opponent tries another 45 degree kick, Tyrone gauns it to the side again. Tyrone moves in for a punch but the opponent tries a hook over the top of it. Tyrone converts the punch in to a bong sao and sends the punch sweeping past him offbalancing the opponent. Tyrone then suddenly changes direction and darts in pinning with the bong and a gum and sends the opponent flying. He got boo’d for this by the crowd.
http://www.hanweionline.org/wingchun/tyroneknockout.mpg
This is the knockout, which was with all things - a kick. Occured half way through the 2nd round. Opponent closes in looking to hit up top which turns out to be a fake as he goes to Ty’s midsection. Tyrone intercepts with a stop hit to his hip which sends the opponent stumbling back. Opponent recovers, comes in with a big windup front kick with his back leg. Tyrone stop hits this with a short side kick (for those of you who were wondering one way to use your side kick from chum kiu). Opponent proceeds to start a hook (he said after the fight to Tyrone that he saw Ty’s guard down - which it was - so he was going to go for it). Tyrone does a short power front kick (the kickboxing guys running the corners thought it was a “foot jab”) to the opponent’s ribs. That’s it, the opponent goes down for the count and
can’t get back up.
The video footage did play on several different windows computers I tried it on, though I did have a problem with my fiance’s iMac playing it. It’s DVD quality footage (I didn’t sample it down), so some of them are around 9 megs.
Good videos watchful, gloves are to big but thats how you have to learn last clip kick to mid section need more sit-ups other than that very nice.
XINDU - nice vids, good to see. They are quite commited to training given that the fight continued even after one fighter had his foot caught in the ropes…very practical, you never know what could happen
Loving the elbows… 
However i agree with the “tame it down for more skill” approach ALSO to complement this kind of practice in one’s training.
I mean some people like yourself perscribe to the “You can have the greatest tecnique, but in a real fight thats what it looks like” and to some degree you are correct.
But IMHO you should at least see a hint of a VT action like Pak Sao or even a Bong Sao somewhere in there if they were competent at using VT.
I have watched some Wing Chun fighters over the years and have really never seen anyone able to pull off Pak sau ect.. Try and pak sau or trap a good boxers hands. Sometimes I feel that is why no representative from wing chun schools show any full contact videos because alot of what has been taught is very hard to pull off against modern skilled fighters.
Another thing I have noticed when a Wing Chun guy loses in competitions UFC ect.. Their own people disown them saying he is no rep of Wing Chun but If they won oh! he is our man go figure>
Another thing I have noticed when a Wing Chun guy loses in competitions UFC ect.. Their own people disown them saying he is no rep of Wing Chun but If they won oh! he is our man
Ten years ago called and asked for its post back.
it’s funny how they and many other tma styles steal techniques form bjj and call it wing chun or whateevr, and when they fight mma and win they give credit to their tma even though they won with mma.
that’s because the style like every other tma is inferior technique, strategy, etc. wise to mma type of styles. No matter how a wing chun fighter trains a mt fighter trianing the same ammount of time will win and will fight how he trains. By the way I have seen some good wing chun in movies.
actually what you people don’t realize is slipping punches, parrying, etc. (what boxers/kickboxers do) is at least as hard it is to do the wing chun blocks:
http://www.wingchun.org/viewpt/one/2/vp1-2n.html
the only difference is the latter are conditioned to take those punches better and practise more realistically and harder generally.