can anyone provide historical information about the “southern shaolin temple” or fukien temple?
names of various famous monks?
years of “operation”?
styles practiced there?
location?
was there more than one location?
if you were a layman in the area what did you refer to the temple as?
if you were a layman in the area what did you think went on at the fukien temple?
when the temple was destroyed was everyone really killed except the 5 elders?
is there any proof about the fukien temple or is it all just ledgend?
this is a interesting artical … but i have already read it …
i wonder if anyone can answer any of these questions based on teachings from their styles traditions?
There really isn’t anything beyond legends and myths for the most part.
Most of the factual history doesn’t exist and it is still to this day arguable as to whether or not a bonafide southern shaolin temple did exist at all or if it was a buddhist temple taht harboured refugee monks from the northern temple like all the other temples taht have been called “shaolin” but aren’t.
Recently, there was some noise about a temple being dug up in an archaeological expedition in China in Fujian Province. There has been some raised eyebrows though because there is thought that perhaps the PRC is fanfaring this in order to solidify the legitimacy of their new southern shaolin temple that they have built an placed shaolin monks in as a tourist trap for martial arts enthusiasts.
There very well may have been a southern temple. There is certainly a lot of stories and legends of one and the time it was said to have existed and been most active was the last dynasty or teh Qing Dynasty.
There is not a lot of actual Historical evidence, if any at all that fully supports these claims.
I had this discussion about a year ago regarding the Southern Shaolin Temple which was supposed to be located in Fukien. I had people tell me they’ve seen the location where it was and yadda, yadda. I did some research on my own and had some great conversations with someone in HK who actually did the research into the temple and pretty much came up with exactly what David is saying…there is no “proof” to substantiate the existance of a Southern Temple.
I emailed Benny Meng of the Wing Chung (Ving Tsung) Association asking him if there was any documentation to substantiate the infomration in his articles (which when reading them you are lead to believe this is certainly the southern shaolin temple) regarding the temples discovery. All I got back were more copies of his articles. The truth is that YES there was a find in fukien of temple remains, however there is nothing showing it to be of any affiliation with the Northern Temple or part of the Shaolin order. There is no documentation or even archiological finds that can prove this at this time. I tend to agree with David and the others at this time who have researched this extensively and concluded that the new “discovery” is more the PRC capitalizing on the popularity and desire to locate the temple then you can have another tourist attraction.
But if they can show that this was the temple then that would be great. Perhaps there is more there than they have found so far but so far…no so.
from what I’ve read, the archeological find might be the remnants of the Fukien Siu-Lum, but ninetheless, they built the new temple on da different site that would be more accessable for tourism, such as better parking. Typical.
thanks for your input. this leads me to a question about the history of many arts which claim linieage from the southern “fukien” shaolin temple. does it make there art less valid since no real proof can be shown to verify their claims to the southern temple?
It was most likely a Taoist temple. not a buddhist one. i had also read that when they were digging at the site they found some items that looked like sai? i think i read that somewhere Here in this forum. but forgot what thread it was. time to do a southern shaolin temple search in the forum here. TWS
yes they did find various weapons at the site. which actually moves it away from a buddhist temple or more in line with perhaps a mohist, possibly a taoist temple or sanctuary.
buddhist didn’t tend to keep weapons of war inside the temple walls. Buddha no likey.
I think much of the confusion regarding the fighting arts of the temples is generated by the “shadow” of Shaolin. It has twisted our perceptions to the point of seeing any temple art in China outside of the Shaolin Temple in Honan traditions as an extension of that temple.
Fukien Shaolin should be viewed as Fukien Temple fighting arts and so forth.
I prefer to use the term Buddhist Temple Fighting Arts; or, simply, Temple Fighting Arts: an umbrella term that includes Buddhist temples throughout Asia as well as China (Temple Fighting Arts is global). This includes the fighting sciences as well as the internal alchemical elements that allow for total development of the human being.
This may make it easier to focus on the differences, the flavors and internal structures that are the hallmarks of each temple. It may also make it easier to see the connectives between one temple and another.
I think much of the confusion regarding the fighting arts of the temples is generated by the “shadow” of Shaolin. It has twisted our perceptions to the point of seeing any temple art in China outside of the Shaolin Temple in Honan traditions as an extension of that temple.
Fukien Shaolin should be viewed as Fukien Temple fighting arts and so forth.
I prefer to use the term Buddhist Temple Fighting Arts; or, simply, Temple Fighting Arts: an umbrella term that includes Buddhist temples throughout Asia as well as China (Temple Fighting Arts is global). This includes the fighting sciences as well as the internal alchemical elements that allow for total development of the human being.
This may make it easier to focus on the differences, the flavors and internal structures that are the hallmarks of each temple. It may also make it easier to see the connectives between one temple and another.
mickey[/QUOTE]
that is interesting … do you think the various temples had any contact with each other?
Shaolin is the name of a Buddhist temple in Honan province.
To say “Fukien Shaolin” suggests that there was a Shaolin temple in Fukien. This is not to say that there was never any kind of cross pollinization of techniques. A particular style may have been transmitted from one temple to monks of a particular temple for purposes of survival. That style may be preserved as is or adapted,while maintaining its fighting integrity, to fit the internal matrix that exists at that particular temple.
It was the Shalom Temple Beth-Isreal run by Rabbi Bruce Leebowitz, whom you may remember as the lead in “Enter the Dreidle”
Remember the scene where they are all punching, “Oy! OY! OY!, the back…”
