anerlich wrote:
That WC IS different to the TWC which William Cheung started teaching in the 1970s after, he claims, Yip Man’s death released him from a promise to keep it secret. Thus there is, IMO, some credence to the two system thing, though the vows, Leung Bik and other parts of the story stretch credibility well past breaking point.
—But that difference could be simply because William Cheung had developed his method or “localized evolved” his Wing Chun between the two time periods. On the surface, it doesn’t really support the two system story. KPM
William Cheung has never been reticent in taking credit for anything in which he has been involved. That is not meant to be insulting, why not take credit where due?, but it is a demonstrable fact. He has many good attributes, but humility is not the highest developed one.
—Now THAT is a good point worth thinking about! KPM
“But that difference could be simply because William Cheung had developed his method or “localized evolved” his Wing Chun between the two time periods. On the surface, it doesn’t really support the two system story.” (KPM)
How much TWC have you actually seen, Keith?
Have you read the short thread Jim Roselando just did about meeting and working out with Delroi Flood? It’s currently listed on the second page of the threads…and is entitled…Pin Sun/TWC Meeting.
In addition…there are hundreds of people who got involved in TWC after spending a significant amount of time in some other WC (usually Yip Man based)…who can tell you that TWC is very different in many ways.
From old records preserve by the Cho family. Various transcent of WCK application or shape exist in Wing Chun Kuen with Wing Chun Kuen principle .
Thus, I dont believe GM Ip Man has to learn the variation of Shape from other style. 1, GM Ip Man was an old old timer of Wing Chun, he must have come across of lots of stuffs prior migrate to HK. 2, Ip Man, Chan Wah, Cho On , YKS, etc in the Wing Chun circle known each others. There was no reason they dont chat wing chun variations.
attached are a sample of two different variation among many of the transcent variations. capture and preserve decades and decades ago . enjoy.
Originally posted by Ernie Hendrik
from the picture it is obvious they are chasing hands this would not be wing chun in concept
Hey Ernie, in the picture on the right it looks like the guy on the left is simply facing the point of contact using a jut mah.
I also noticed that these guys aren’t using a pidgeon toed stance in the photo on the left. They seem to be doing a character 2 stance.
Originally posted by Ernie Hendrik
from the picture it is obvious they are chasing hands this would not be wing chun in concept
You got it all wrong Ernie. It’s not obvious at all. Here is what really happened:
In the picture on the left they are both in the process of raising their hands to start their boxing match. Then the guy on the right suddenly lashes out with a blinding speed left jab. The picture shows it already in retracted state. However the guy on the left is very agile, slips the jab and dances to the left to counter with a punishing right hook to the head. The guy on the right has a jaw of steel and is able to take the right hook to the head. The photo shows the right hook when it is already retracted. From the photo it is clear that the hook punch had no affect at all. After that they clinched and went to the ground with the guy on the right being able to do a triangle choke for the submission.
Originally posted by YongChun
[B]I do appreciate these old photos. I was just kidding a bit.
Ray [/B]
Ray,
These photos are not related. they are samples as I mention.
Notice the stance variation as Phil mention.
Also, the way how people facing… lots of stuffs those old people experimenting…
As I have heard from Jiu brothers’ decendent. GM Ip man has a large collection of variantion shape. So, what we see today might very likely to be a tip of iceberg. different people got different pieces.
Originally posted by Ernie Hendrik
from the picture it is obvious they are chasing hands this would not be wing chun in concept
Great comment.
however,
As it said, comes recieve, goes send , disengage rush in.
Comes recieve. goes send. is that chasing hands or using others arm /momentum…to control him?
WCK is Not boxing you see. More then Jab, hook, and upper cut.
There is direct to the center. There is sickle to control the center. There is make use of what is close and not rush for what in the distance. There is … Different situation. Different shape… not only one way. hahahahaha
I dont define what is wing chun as you do. I just observe what happen in the past and what happen in the Localization Evolution.
“But that difference could be simply because William Cheung had developed his method or “localized evolved” his Wing Chun between the two time periods.”
I guess that’s definltely possible, and that he made up the stuff about the vow ot keep it secret, etc. But not claiming credit for himself would be totally out of character.
" On the surface, it doesn’t really support the two system story." KPM
Well, not as regards William Cheung’s public version of TWC history, no. But if he made it up himself, it’s still a second system.
In the picture on the left they are both in the process of raising their hands to start their boxing match. Then the guy on the right suddenly lashes out with a blinding speed left jab. The picture shows it already in retracted state. However the guy on the left is very agile, slips the jab and dances to the left to counter with a punishing right hook to the head. The guy on the right has a jaw of steel and is able to take the right hook to the head. The photo shows the right hook when it is already retracted. From the photo it is clear that the hook punch had no affect at all. After that they clinched and went to the ground with the guy on the right being able to do a triangle choke for the submission.
Of COURSE! it’s so obvious now you’ve pointed it out
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
[B]Great comment.
however,
As it said, comes recieve, goes send , disengage rush in.
Comes recieve. goes send. is that chasing hands or using others arm /momentum…to control him?
WCK is Not boxing you see. More then Jab, hook, and upper cut.
There is direct to the center. There is sickle to control the center. There is make use of what is close and not rush for what in the distance. There is … Different situation. Different shape… not only one way. hahahahaha
I dont define what is wing chun as you do. I just observe what happen in the past and what happen in the Localization Evolution. [/B]
there are many ways to recieve [ keep/hold , follow . let go . add to or guide ] but wing chun is a 2 handed system one controls/ monitors center at all times the other manipulates energy ,
if you are useing a single action with out a supporting [ helping hand ] your focus is on center [ sealing ]
this is pre school stuff hendrik
those guys had to much air space and bad angles the focus is off
but like you said it’s the past and they had not worked out the kinks that’s why i don’t was my time on old systems that had not weeded uout the fluff:D
Originally posted by Ernie
[B]there are many ways to recieve [ keep/hold , follow . let go . add to or guide ]
but wing chun is a 2 handed system one controls/ monitors center at all times the other manipulates energy ,
if you are useing a single action with out a supporting [ helping hand ] your focus is on center [ sealing ]
this is pre school stuff hendrik
those guys had to much air space and bad angles the focus is off
but like you said it’s the past and they had not worked out the kinks that’s why i don’t was my time on old systems that had not weeded uout the fluff:D [/B]
you certainly have great theory and great definition!
Even Mas Oyama is sloppy for you
BTW. WingChun is a 2 handed system?
Nope. Perhaps is yours but not necessary others. :D:D:D
2year old stuffs. Yes or No. :D:D
(or you can decide your wing chun dont do Dan Chi Sau. :D)
if yes then is Wing Chun still a WingChun is a 2 handed system? :D:D
For Some, Wing Chun is a 1, 2, 3, …etc handed system ,
because Wing Chun is famous with it’s “one hand broken/settle two hands” or Yat Poh Yee TRade mark.
Also that 3 handed system where one elbow is another extra hand…hahahaha
Certainly not a TWO HANDED SYSTEM for some others. :D:D
KPM
