For TWC people or anyone interested.

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
41

“this is not my thread don’t want to mess it up.” (Ernie…talking to Hendrik)

It’s already messed up.

I just wish GM Cheung would finally come clean and tell us where TWC really came from!

In fact - I think I know…Hendrik invented it…taught it to William Cheung…who taught it to Yip Man…who taught it to Leung Bik.

But since Leung Bik was the oldest of the group - and Chinese tradition and formality being what it is - they all agreed to reverse the historical lineage.

But where does that leave poor Hendrik?

On the bottom of the totem pole.

Poor guy - hope he doesn’t get confused.

Wouldn’t want to see him start rambling on and on about nothing!

42

we all sounds like lots of 3rd chakra speaking. Hmmmm
there is no solution with 3rd Chakra. until somedays self reflection is a by default. then, there is hope.

Betwen black and white there are rainbow of colors. that is real life. Why ask others to be perfect when one cant be perfect.

Best wishes on this topic guys

43

The last time I tried to keep this thread on topic, Terence gave me Sh!t for it?

As for chasing hands, when in Dan Chi-Sao position, I’m Fok Sao your Tan Sao, and you try to huen sao around to strike I will beat you to the punch as the forward intention will strike you first. This is direct while in contact, but outside contact range, when the opponent strike, yes you can take the direct route and go straight in and release your own attacks(stop hitting per say), problem is your in line for his combo’s and vulnerable to many thing in the heat of the moment, while having to deal with all of his weapons while down the center. When someone strikes me with a round movement, I move into it and dissolve it first, before it reaches its apex, but after that point in which he is fully committed to the movement. Is this chasing hands, not really IMO. I’m not going for his knee or elbow when it is in the natural position, but only when it extends toward me, and then at the point of no return you move towards, therefore you are out of the way of the follow up or combination attack and in a safer zone. Yes directness (hard style WC) or evasiveness/active footwork (soft WC) can either be used to dissolve the attack and obtain success in combat.

James

44

“I’m not going for his knee or elbow when it is in the natural position, but only when it extends toward me, and then at the point of no return you move towards, therefore you are out of the way of the follow up or combination attack and in a safer zone.” (James)

James - I’m going to respond to this remark on the Converting Chi Sao Skills thread - as it directly relates to your last post there as well as here…

45

james - yes it is chasing hands
and if it takes you 3 actions to do what you should do in one
it’s not effecient

problem is you need to cultivate the right skills to not chase hands and make use of directness

not an easy thing

not a hard style at all path of least resisitence

it would be much [ harder] to run around in circles

if you don’t understand how to take position [ blow some one out ] with directness , explosivenenss and feeling

then i can see the problem , no one practices fighting going backwards

but if you don’t blow the dude hell anything is possible

it’s all in the attributes and mindset bro

but i despise technique and concept conversations i’m hands on

so back to your thread man;)

46

Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
But that difference could be simply because William Cheung had developed his method or “localized evolved” his Wing Chun between the two time periods. On the surface, it doesn’t really support the two system story." (KPM)

How much TWC have you actually seen, Keith?

—Quite alot actually. I visited with and trained briefly with John Clayton in Baltimore. But I think you may have misunderstood my comment. I didn’t mean that TWC was not a “second system.” But rather that the comment didn’t support the idea that Yip Man himself knew two separate systems. My idea is that TWC is a separate system because William Cheung devised it and not because Yip Man taught it to him intact. William Cheung is certainly the Grand Master of TWC because it is HIS system. KPM

Have you read the short thread Jim Roselando just did about meeting and working out with Delroi Flood? It’s currently listed on the second page of the threads…and is entitled…Pin Sun/TWC Meeting.

—Sure did. And I have spoken with Jim about it privately via eMail. KPM

In addition…there are hundreds of people who got involved in TWC after spending a significant amount of time in some other WC (usually Yip Man based)…who can tell you that TWC is very different in many ways.

—I’ll be the first to admit that TWC is in fact very different from the rest in many ways! Again, I think this is just a case of simple misunderstanding. KPM

Keith

47

And The Localization Evolution continous

There are

full arrow circular platform
broken arrow straight line platform

There are

straight body middle gate open
straight body side gate open
side body middle gate open
side body side gate open
horizontal/slan body middle gate open
horizontal/slan body side gate open

There are

front stance entrance
back stance entrance
side stance entrance
horizontal stance entrance

There are

not chasing hands and straight line
but, one forgot the kuit said " come recieve, goes send, disengage rush forward" is about spiral and release…
how do one recieve with a straight line?
where is the sensing comes?

There are

hands crossing the 3 gates as one likes it
but, one forgot every gate is a snake heads.
how do one passing the 3 snake heads?
is it a boxing jab, hook, and upper cut evolution?
Or is it a …

There are

using muscle to hit
using body weight to push
Using vertical wave to send …

There are

using the structure to root
using the body to push and suddently release
Using the awareness to manage…

There are

southern Shao lin
bah gua
taiji
hakka
White crane
Emei
TaiZhu long fist
boxing…
JET KUEN DO

There are

bunch of combinations…

What happen, when? why? how? who?..
Classical, modern, traditional, popular, modified, evolution…the list goes on.

and Localization Evolution continous.

between black and white there are rainbow colors. Until beyond the 3rd chakra who will see things clearly beside — MINE is the best and true right one. Who is the totally right one? have any seen one beside the one in the mirror? :smiley:

48

Re: And The Localization Evolution continous

Before anyone has a pop at Hendrik, I’d just like to say that I liked this post even though, as usual, I only understood some of it. Although it is a superficial understanding.

I particularly liked the following; some things to ponder for training:

not chasing hands and straight line
but, one forgot the kuit said " come recieve, goes send, disengage rush forward" is about spiral and release…
how do one recieve with a straight line?
where is the sensing comes?
And

[B]

using muscle to hit
using body weight to push
Using vertical wave to send …[/B]
And

[B]

using the structure to root
using the body to push and suddently release
Using the awareness to manage…[/B]

I take it that this means the indivdual’s way? I know you’re not this conceited.
[B]

MINE is the best and true right one. Who is the totally right one? have any seen one beside the one in the mirror? :smiley: [/B]

49

Chee,

I suspect that you have to pass your obstructive 3rd chakra gate before you gain total understanding of the finer points of Hendrik’s post! Hendrik is a really nice guy, and I for one don’t know why people keep jabbing him with funny references. =D

50

Originally posted by yellowpikachu
You do Dan Chi Sau? :smiley:

Ernie didn’t want to take it there…but I will. This is a silly comment. Wing Chun is a 2-handed system and the highest Wing Chun technique is two hands against one.

I Dan Chi Sao…I also don’t see myself breaking out into Bong Lap Dar drills in the middle of a confrontation on the street.

Sheesh.

51

Couch,

I think it is the other way around - one hand covers two! But usually to have that simple one hand termination kill, you have to go through two handed skill first. They feed off each other’s progress. Two hands act like one hand, and one hand acts like two hands. =)

52

—Quite alot actually. I visited with and trained briefly with John Clayton in Baltimore. But I think you may have misunderstood my comment. I didn’t mean that TWC was not a “second system.” But rather that the comment didn’t support the idea that Yip Man himself knew two separate systems. My idea is that TWC is a separate system because William Cheung devised it and not because Yip Man taught it to him intact. William Cheung is certainly the Grand Master of TWC because it is HIS system. KPM
There are many variations or expressions of what GM Yip Man taught, there would have to be more verifiable students of GM Yip Man who’ve created entirely different systems before your idea could even be considered plausible.

originally posted by yellowbird
There are

southern Shao lin
bah gua
taiji
hakka
White crane
Emei
TaiZhu long fist
boxing…
JET KUEN DO

Once again hendrik focuses on the flower and not the fruit the attachment of different names or forms can not change reality the place of our true focus is it bong sau or is it bon sau or maybe ban sau or better yet baung sow the true answer lies in experience and when you experience and can demonstrate that experience only then will we all understand what it is you are expressing through the connection of our own experience. That is what’s real and that is what matters.

53

Originally posted by PaulH
[B]Couch,

I think it is the other way around - one hand covers two! But usually to have that simple one hand termination kill, you have to go through two handed skill first. They feed off each other’s progress. Two hands act like one hand, and one hand acts like two hands. =) [/B]

:wink:

Agreed. Sometimes I’m lysdexic.

54

Ha! Ha! Couch, I’m Jumpexic! I tend to count chickens before they hatch. =D