I mean from all the ifnormation I read and stories I read kung fu was used for hundreds of years in fights like lei tai and against bandits. If it was always useless than why did it not die out? If it was ineffective and everyone started brawling like in the early ufcs or started ground fighting than how were bandits indimidated by it and how were villages protected from bandits? Or are all those stories lying and even though tai chi and some other styles were documented to have eben created for this reason it is all false? And noone found out these styles don’t work and continued to practise them and teach them in ineffective ways (according to mma people)? I’m just trying to understand if kung fu is so useless than why did it survive for so long in such hard times?. I mean I can’t find one descent sparring clip of one pure style utilizing movements from the forms and not kickboxing type footwork/stance. The best kung fu ive seen are in some shaw brother movies.
In a nut shell?
it’s because people havent put enough time into thier training to make it combat effective.
If a student spends as much time training as they do watching TV or playing video games then they would be able to perform the techniques they know at a level that would be worthy of the life or death situations that occured in those times.
If and when it came time to defend your life and you could rely on only the techniques that you have mastered, how many techniques would you have??? would it even be one? and be honest with yourself.
Years ago met a guy named taifu whom was half chinese, half italian and lived in a temple near mongolia. He was teaching us various things when I asked how much time he spent in meditation to which he replied I am always in meditation whether moving, sitting or sleeping.
however when I began I would sit for usually 8 to 10 hours a day.
So I thought how about how much time I spent sitting which on a good day lasted sometimes an hour. It was then I realized if I spent the next 20 years sitting I would still not be close to the level of skill this man obtained.
So If I made the assumption based on my limited experience that meditation could not bring you to clairity of mind I would be speaking purley out of ignorance, as do those who say kung fu is ineffective…be well
The best kung fu ive seen are in some shaw brother movies.
honestly… how many people have seen kung fu of the “good old days”?.. i mean dark alley “give me your money or your life” kung fu… what did it look like?.. how was it taught?.. how many hours did they train?.. how many students were seriously hurt during training?.. how many schools were sued into purgatory by some whiny soccor mom whose son got a bloody nose?..
In the "old" days it was more a matter of show me I can beat you and I may let you live or just destroy your school your face and rep.
Lei tai is just free fight, and likely the reason it "triumphed “over shaolin” ( ???!!!) and if you say you’ve read it I believe you, is because true blue shaolin practitioners practice their gongfu ( as opposed to purpose to fight, even in regard to sparring during training) ,as part of their whole-hearted belief system. That is not something that time nor hardship will ever quell!
amitopho and happy travels.
Re: For those of you that think kung fu is useless
Originally posted by Enforcer-
I mean from all the ifnormation I read and stories I read kung fu was used for hundreds of years in fights like lei tai and against bandits. If it was always useless than why did it not die out?
that’s not an indication of effectiveness. People train for various reasons. As long as the art was passed to at least one person who was willing to teach, the art would have survived. Why people decided to study under the person is not standard. I mean, look at the rep that styles like chung moo do get and they are still going strong. They have something that at least some of the population is interested in, apparently.
Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
amitopho and happy travels.
Since when does Ego use Buddhist salutations?
If it was always useless than why did it not die out?
Originally posted by MasterKiller
Since when does Ego use Buddhist salutations?
since he started the bl hook up apparently .
can’t fvck with good sense and wisdoms
Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
[B]since he started the bl hook up apparently .
can’t fvck with good sense and wisdoms [/B]
Way to practice unattachment, BL. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by EarthDragon
[B]In a nut shell?
it’s because people havent put enough time into thier training to make it combat effective.
If a student spends as much time training as they do watching TV or playing video games then they would be able to perform the techniques they know at a level that would be worthy of the life or death situations that occured in those times.[/b]
- no they wouldn’t.
- some of that onus belongs to the teacher - the format and the training methods they use. what goes through people’s minds when they think about thai boxing training? What goes through their mind when they think of TMA? why?
If and when it came time to defend your life and you could rely on only the techniques that you have mastered, how many techniques would you have??? would it even be one? and be honest with yourself.
fortunately, that’s not the case. you don’t have to have techniques mastered in order to use them. you only need to be proficient in using them, and they must be ingrained reflex.
Originally posted by MasterKiller
Way to practice unattachment, BL. :rolleyes:
that’s de tatchment Mr.Oh so Pedantic , and still just Ego!
btw : nice post seven star
Obviously, you missed my point.
Do you honestly believe that people practiced a system of life saving street fighting that in any way was as complex and intricate and stylized as the form you’re doing today?
You’re nuts.
mk:- who’s missing whose??
st:- times have changed and when your gongfu is your belief system expressing itself, so does the manner and capacity in which you ( or observers ) see it.
I think we’ve already established the differences in todays gongfu to way back, but one does do ones best to perpertuate and utilise as need presents. Some gongfu is for no more than school!! :eek: 
st:- times have changed and when your gongfu is your belief system expressing itself, so does the manner and capacity in which you ( or observers ) see it.
English. Do you speak it?
As recent as the early sixties, if you asked someone in China whether taijiquan (tai chi) was useful for fighting they would think you were crazy. Taijiquan was so popular because of it’s reputation in fighting. In that time, if a taiji guy loses a fight, no one will question whether taiji is effective, rather thay will just say that the person’s gongfu is not good enough.
Today, people do not practice enough and in most cases don’t understand the true principles of taiji, so in a sense, the art is dying and not too many people have the high level skill to promote it’s effectiveness. I have witnessed and felt it’s effectiveness, so I know myself how subtle and brutal it is as an art.
This is true with other styles of TMA/CMA, many ppl do not practice enough to make their gong fu strong. Therefore their weakness is projected onto the art. This is incorrect and unfair to the art and it’s history. Indeed, many of the training practices are viewed as ineffective, because the underlying goal is misunderstood.
MMA is indeed effective. It is relatively easy to learn in concept and readily applicable. This not to say that training and conditioning aren’t involved, but to an extent, less is needed to be effective. That is to say, someone can become an effective fighter within a relatively short time.
The difference here is whether one merely wants to be effective or whether one wants to develop high-level skill that is not just effective, but is most efficient and relies less on brute strength and more on refined skill. Only time and dillegent work produce this level of gong fu, which many TMA rely on to be effective. Most ppl are not willing to make that kind of sacrifice. So today you have watered down gongfu looking pretty ineffective next to MMA.
It’s not the art that is ineffective, it’s the level of skill in the practicioner.
mystical legends, closed door students, etc… I think this was brought on itself over time. It goes deeper than just “students not practicing enough”
Mystical legends etc. Well, some of it is embellished, but often there is a Kernel of truth in some of the stories.
Closed door students are the one’s chosen to pass on the art. It simply means that they are held to a higher standard than other students.
You can doubt real gongfu all you want. I’ve met the real thing and it changed my mind completely. The real guys are tough. When you meet the real deal, it blows your mind.
A lot CMA schools in America are not the real deal. If you are fortunate enough to meet a real Chinese gongfu master, you too will know and see things differently. It is a dying art. True CMA requires skill, which most do not possess in this day and age. Some do though, you just have to seek them out. And they are generally not the most advertised or flashy.
My teacher is an amazing martial artist, I can only hope to be one tenth as good someday. In Beijing, some of our group members, Lu Shengli and Zhao Zeren are feared and respected. And they are in their fifties.
"closed door students, "
…
Technically right now I am a closed door student. This simply means that my instructor wants to only train with myself and gene until we move into a karate studio to share space.
delibandit,
you made a great point , true masters are few and far between. I had to ask to be taught for 5 years from my shrfu and for 5 years he declined.
Then in the 6th year he said OK. I sold my car quit my job of 7 years and moved 3,000 miles away from home.
meat shake, LOL if you are a closed door diciple you wouldnt know it, your shrfu wouldnt tell you. that stastement cracked me up!!!