How many of you guys chose your current school based on reputation? I hear people all the time praising well known(through media like magazines) masters kungfu even though they never have seen them in action. I guess what I’m trying to ask is, do you feel it is important for a teacher to be well known? Would you choose a school based on the fame of a teacher?
I personally would approach a famous teacher the same as if nobody ever heard of him before. How do you choose?
Treating all teachers with respect is important. Personally, I would approach a famous teacher the same as a no-so-famous teacher. Fame is rather subjective. What fame does for a teacher is, it draw students from a ****her distance who are willing to learn. For instance, if I had the opportunity to travel to Master Li Siu Hung’s school in Florida, whom I heard about in Kung Fu Magazine, I would be willing to do it. I’d still want to see his Kung Fu or talk to him, if he’s as good as they say, he probably would not mind, or at least one of his students wouldn’t. But just because he’s in KF magazine doesn’t mean that he’s better than anyone else or that I should learn from him. It’s just that I know who he is because of KF mag. and had it not been for that publication, I wouldn’t know him from Joe Schmoe on the street. Just because a person has fame doesn’t mean they’re bad, but it doesn’t make them good either.
-ZC
See…
now if you would’ve spelled FURTHER correctly, you wouldn’t have gotten a series of astrix(***)…jes helpin 
I’m my own master, I don’t care if my teacher is famous, not famous or even if I have a teacher. I can still learn and better myself one step at a time just the same either way. At my point in the game, it’s how hard I work, NOT who’s work I’m doing.
Royal Dragon
The best way is always visiting the school and checking out the stuff, if its good do it if not move on.
It depends if you want to be one of those chums with a website full of pictures of you standing side by side fifty great martial arts masters because you forked over some $ for a one hour session & a photo.
By the way, my website of crap is availableHere .
- Nexus
I would have to say from my experiences that just because someone is famous and has written books/videos/been in magazines/has a big school, that doesn’t mean they will teach what you as an individual are looking for. You just have to go check out what they are teaching. If you like what they are doing who cares whether or not they are famous?
famous
well i would go for the unknown because like ykm it was unknown so it was alot harder to fight in the old days!
also you can say your famous, but famous in what way?
I did not pick my school from rep. i just thought that it looked like the best out there. I still think this and that’s why I keep training there.
I was just curious cause alot of newbies come here and ask how to find a good teacher and alot of the time people say things about checking his reputation, they say if he is any good he will be well known. Personally I think some of the best masters are hidden and keep a low profile. Not to say the guys in magazines aren’t good, I mean there is alot of guys out there I look up to for their accomplishments, like Tat Mau Wong, Shi Yan Ming, and I really like Wing Lam’s business ideas with his mail order stuff(to bad I didn’t think of it first).
I guess the main reason I wanted to know peoples stance on this is because the little known sifus seem to get no respect and most get labeled as frauds. I guess that’s cause people don’t know them, oh well.
SHAOLIN…during my pre TKD days I got bought into training with GRANDMASTER and TKD CHAMP KIM…now little did I know there was sooooo many TKD champs! LOL…nor did I know that MASTER KIM never taught a single class for the 6 months I was a there! Nor did I know that for every TKD school…there is alwayz a master KIM…inside KOREAN joke. I have since taken up the policy to train with GOOD COMMUNICATORs…if they were GREAT CHAMPIONs…fantastic…but GREAT VERBAL COMMUNICATORs are the key! They can in detail fixed your striking or grappling. For others I like to train with GREAT MOTIVATORs that push u further…like drill sergent type mentality! Sometime as a human being we can get lazy…well I’m only speaking about myself of course!
I think you underestimate the newbies, Shaolindynasty.
It is in the nature of some folks to check people’s reputations. But don’t forget that NOT ALL NEWBIES do that - nor is it a bad thing to do. Should a newbie (or anybody) be blamed for trying to figure out where to put their hard earned time and money?
And if a person chooses not to study with a person because of reputation, does that sifu REALLY want such a person in his class?
Which little-known sifus “get no respect” and are “labeled as frauds?”
“Which little-known sifus “get no respect” and are “labeled as frauds?””
I just mean in gernal on thses boards people are really sckeptical about instructors and schools if they haven’t heard of them, I guess that could be due to a large amount of them actually being shady.
I feel that a newbie should research technique and principles of styles before chooseing a school like I did. Now a teacher can get well known and have alot of publications and 'world championships" to brag about and still be no good. But If you are educated on MA technique you can tell by observation if a school is what you want. All the pther intellectual stuff is pretty usless in chooseing a school. I searched alot of schools and watched skill before I chose my Sifu, before I visited his class I never heard of him but he was the best in the area. I was just making the observation that if you only search the well known you could be missing out on a really great school to learn from.
I don’t see any lesser known sifus being trashed by people that haven’t heard of them, ShaolinDynasty.
If anything, I see well-known folks being trashed by people that have never touched hands or stepped foot in their kwoons. Heck, YOU’RE the one calling other schools “shady” in your prior post.
Newbies DO research stuff and ask good questions. Don’t forget that you were a newbie once and did the EXACT SAME THING that they’re doing here.
Trust me, the people on these boards aren’t anywhere as “skeptical” as you think they are.
At this point in my traning/age, I don’t care who the person is. If he has knowledge, and can pass on this knowledge, is partly what counts-I have learned from men I have met in the park,and other odd places, some who which I have never learned their names. I have been scolded at one point for asking.“Why ask his name? He is just Sifu. Everyone calls him Sifu-You call him Sifu”
I say partly for one reason; I have left teachers who posessed great skill,and/or knowledge, strictly because of their lack of morality, and personal ethics. I know I have missed some oportunities, but I cannot study under someone whom I cannot trust. I cannot separate myself that much. I would be decieving my Sifu, and myself. At what cost?
My teacher is very well known, at least in the area and by those who seek to fight the best (he has been visted from those on the east and west coast as well as Taiwan, CHina, ect.)
However, I saught him out because of his reputation as a fighter and because I crossed hands with one of his students and found his fighting technology to be superior to any I have ever seen.
I was happy with my current training so when I was first introduced I kept an open eye and mind but wanted to see for myself. Any doubts were quickly dismissed. My teacher takes the aproach that I like: it must work, no BS, straight to the point.
At 60 years old I can’t touch him. This is the truth and I do not consider myself to be of a low level – quite the contrary. At 27 and 210lbs, if I am anything I am tenacious, and still not avail.
Power, straight forward principles that work and a healthy aproach to training – that is what keeps me returning to study under my master’s tutelage. I have never used that title before when adressing anyone, and only did whith my current sifu once in writing, but the title fits. I have never experinced someone of his caliber or ability, and now I see why he has the reputation that he does.
Even more amazing is the fact that this man has no enemies, and in NYC that is unique in the martial world. Even those who saught him out, challenged him and were defeated respect this honest, straight forward man. Truly a great man. Unbelievable martial artist. Training with his is a dream come true for me.
You know Bak Mei, your teacher sounds like someone worth emulating.
I’ll tell you though - I guarentee you that behind his back people are whining and crying. I have never seen such a bunch of babies as martial arts folks.
But by being a ‘big shadow’ your teacher probably mitigates this problem.
My Shuai Chiao coach had a similar rep. He was always very honest and talked about his medical practice and family taking precedence over his own training - but he could toss you around like a rag doll.
He also gave so much back to the community that he was genuinely loved - not as a martial artist - but as a great man.
Really strikes a different cord from those ‘chest thunpers’ out there, eh?
Nice to know that they are still out there.
I don’t quite get martial artists today. They are all cry babies, you are right. There also seems to be a mass exodus from the idea that martial arts should be about combat. Now, make no mistake, martial arts have been a part of my entire life, and I fully apriacte the person its discipline and moral fiber has molded me into, but I demand to keep the MARTIAL in martial arts.
When speaking with outsiders, I’m almost shunned for suggesting that martial is the #1 priority that a MA should have. Yes, come visit our kwoons for health, and a clear mind, but **** it, after 7 to 10 years you better be able to defend yourself and defend yourself well. I for one am embarrased to be ranked among the scores of black belts you hear about getting their heads handed to themselves out on the street – disgusting.
I believe this is from an over emphasis on form, and not enough realistic function being taught in the school. Its partialy student and teacher blame. Students want everything easy. They want to claim martial strenght without getting any brusies. Teachers are willing to comply to keep the class full, and teaching 15 forms is a peace of cake, especially when newbies are clumsy – you can eat 10 months on one form alone easily.
Well, I guess I’m ranting. Nice meeting you. Have a great day.
Peace
Ray
i agree with what you sai Bak Mei
but fighting all the time must get a bit boring after a while (?)Training your martial arts skill is a good thing - and after maybe 7 or 10 years of experience you should be able to defend yourself…but still, if you get taken by surprise, there’s not much you can do.
Training in a good traditional martial art should have all the things you mentioned. You should learn ‘martial science’ - how the body works as well as self defence skill, but health is most important. If you’re not healthy first - then how will you fight? I may be able to do all these techniques, but if i get out of breath quickly or have a bad posture etc. then that will quickly count against me. Better to sort those out at the start, fighting training takes care of itself afterwards.
I agree that some teachers and students just train too easily - it’s called chasing $$$$$$. You give the people what you want, that way they keep coming back. I mean, i’ve been training my Siu Lum Tao now for 18 months and it’s still no good (according to my Sifu)…i don’t know many people who would like to do that? Most people want to grade every 3 months and move on to something new, so many clubs give them that.
But i think a good concentration on form is a good thing. In a real fight, things get messy real quick, so it’s better to train your technique to be good and clear. That way it still works in a real fight.
Anyway, back to the topic in hand…i think there is a difference between someone being ‘good’ and ‘a good teacher’. So the main thing for me was communication. Can they explain the principles and techniques in a easy to understand way? if so, then that’s good. Also, how do they interact with their students? is there a balance between showing/helping them and lettign them figure out things on their own…?
Just because you are in a magazine or a champion means you are good, not necccessarily a good teacher. But people in magazines who have regular colums are worth reading. That way you can find out if they can explain things coherently. That’s how i first found out about my Sigong and am now training under one of his students 
Luckily skill is just as good as their teaching so i always feel very lucky.
david
david,
Good thoughts on training.
A common routine in tai chi is standing post meditation for six months before forms are introduced and emphasized as something you should practice on your own time.
Ontop of that, you spend a year learning the gross movements of the forms before you move anywhere towards application and form refinement. All the while you are still doing 75% of your time in standing post meditation, which is 2-3 hours a day of you are determined and consistent.
After learning the basics of Yang style (24-movement) you are introduced to the first third of the long form and push hands. Then once the long form is learned you work on refinement as well as applications, and begin your introduction to Chen style.
Overall you can spend 5-10 years learning Yang 24-movement, Standing post meditation, Yang Long Form (108), Chen form, Push hands, and Tai Chi sword/and/or staff.
During all of this, you are just touching upon the surface of application, sparring and mat work starts after 4-5 years of consistent practice.
Of course all of this is not necessary if you are looking for short cuts, and some people practice once a week and still follow this routine without gaining the benefits of daily practice.
But, I often have asked the question, “How long after starting this routine/process is someone able to defend themselves using the tai chi they have learned?”
I would say if they are dedicated, consistent and commited to their practices somewhere between 5-8 years.
- Nexus