question then
So you find a good teacher, whether famous or not, that communicates well and motivates and pushes you. If you say it takes 5 - 8 years to be effective in Tai Chi, how long before you can expect to be effective in Kung Fu? What could you expect your training to be like? Looking for something similar to previous post about 6 months of this then some form…
Unknown teachers can be the best to have, if they are qualified. The reason I say this is because, if they are trying to become established, they tend to train their people very well, as the hallmark of a great teacher is great students. My teacher is still working to establish himself, not in a monetary way, but just his reputation among the sifus he respects, and so those of us who show some promise and dedication get taught extremely well, and he works very hard to continue this.
I’ve seen some well established teachers who do not do the same, and who don’t need great students for their reputations. However, there are also some very famous teachers out there that deserve the reputations they have earned.
Um
Its hard these days to know what’s right. With commercialisation at an all time high and scores of guys promoting “Real Life Navy Seal Training” and “15 minutes to perfect Qui” its hard to know what is real these days
I used to worry about my own school, which has become commercialised, I used to worry that its website and logos made it “fake”, but I now see through that, and realise that the students that are coming out of the doors are still as good as ever, they just have the words “Lau-Gar” written up their legs. 
i guees how long to be ‘combat ready’ so to speak depends on what style and what your teacher is like…Kung Fu is a pretty big area , there’s a lot of ‘choice’ out there.
Also what do you mean by ‘effective’? able to defend against your common drunken lout? against a trained martial artist? There is so much to choose from - again it depends on you and your reasons for training. If it’s just fighting, then traditional training is often a long way about doing it…Most people want hands on experience straight away - not to be practising standing meditation or the form for a year or so! But if you want to learn the skill, then again, it’s different. Mainly it depends on YOU - how quickly you can learn and understand the concepts and principles of your chosen style - and also how you apply them.
In response to Delicate Sound:
There are so many ‘Real Fighting’ styles out there now that it’s sometimes hard to see the wood from the trees…if they are ‘real’ self defence, then why are the traditional martial arts still around?
So many posters and flyers, clubs with sweatshirts and logos etc… Now i just get on with my own training and don’t really think about anything else. I’m happy i found my Sifu and i know the skills he is teaching me are benificial not just for fighting. I’m happy to spend the rest of my life following him - and don’t care whether i learn to fight or not - that will take care of itself in due course. I mean, the chances of me getting in to a fight are reasonably small (even in the ghetto that is WolfTown :D).
david
Completely
Sod all the posters and sh!t, I use whatever gets me ther. I too am glad I found my school, and feel sorry for all those who go to a McKwoon… or like Ralek, who’ve never stept inside one.
Here’s a general rule:
If people don’t leave bruised.
If people don’t sometimes have to get stitches on a fairly regular basis.
If there isn’t tape somewhere on everybody.
If the uniforms are clean.
If the belts look new.
If your face isn’t marked up.
If sparring consists of I touch you and you touch me.
Then find a new place to train.
I never considered our school a ‘school of hard knocks’ or ‘hardcore’, but..all students experience contact on day one, through reaction drills hands on with a partner, and sam sing. They get banged a little, and are informed that it goes with the territory, and that it’s no big deal. We don’t allow egos, or macho attitude,and it’s a warm, friendly atmosphere, but they will sweat,they will bang around, and they will hit the floor, and they will get used to it. Hopefully they will enjoy it as well! If not, they know where the door is. My Sifu once told me,“give them what they think they want, while you give them what they need” I think this is sound advice, and I am trying to do just this. My curriculum, and training methods are in constant flux, I am alsways learning,always looking for a better way to get a student from point A to point B, and I am always open to change. I studied under some of the best and some of the worst teachers out there, hopefully I can save my students from learning some of the bad habits I am still trying to overcome. It is my sincere desire that they surpass me, so the next generation is stronger, not weaker from all the commercialization of Gung-Fu.
KC Elbows
I may be going to KC this coming summer for Job training.
Is your school open to respectful outside visitors?
Last time I was in KC(1996) I looked but didn’t find any CMA schools.
Is your system Southern or Northern?
Not that it matters,just didn’t want to spend all of my free time in westport at Kellys with my class mates,gets old after awhile.
Plus I could show you guys a thing or two about cooking BBQ:D
TN,
The school is completely open to outside visitors, we welcome other martial artists. Ours is a Southern internal style, though the early stuff you learn is generally external(sort of a bridge to the internal form). As far as experienced martial artists who practice with us, there’s a TKD guy, a external kung fu guy, the teacher also knows a lot of southern five animals, and I have some longfist experience, but six elbows is really my base.
Plus, we go to better places than Kelly’s after class.
It’d be great to meet one of the other forum members, plus to share kung fu knowledge/experience more directly.
As far as kung fu in KC, one has to know where to look. There’s a wudang school, a wing chun school, a five animals and wing chun school. These are the ones you’ll find in the phone book.
Outside of the phone book, there are three groups who teach six elbows, there’s a guy who teaches what I hear is some very vicious southern five animals, one guy who teaches chin woo stuff, two groups who teach hsing yi, and a contemporary wushu teacher.
Over a forum, I won’t give my take on all these groups. Some are good, some not. If you want to check schools out while you’re here, I can give you my advice on who is worth seeing, but I’d prefer not to do it over the forum.
Dezhen, I will not argue over form, because many feel it is necessary.
But I’ll say this, I am in good shape, but it will never be a factor because a fight should be over in seconds. If my attacker is not down in 5 seconds (honestly) I feel I have lost – even if I win. If you are fighting one man for more than a minute, your training in inefective. Why? What happens if there are two guys?
Maybe you are not there yet. I’ll tell you this, it will ne hard to get there if its taking you 10 months on sil lumtao. Then what, another 10 months, and then maybe you’ll learn Bil ji 2 years from now.
OK, 3 years from now you’ll be ready to start thinking baout fighting. Why not learn the principles in action. Learn how to shield a direct attack. Learn how to shield swinging energy, side enrgy. Then learn how to shield these while attacking. You’ll be a decent fighter in 10 months.
Also, Nexus, not everyone’s Taiji training is restricted in that way. My sifu refuses to teach forms. He will show you an IDEA, a piece of the form, but show you how to put it into practice. Most of his students have at least 10 years MA training – Taiji is not kindergarden, it is PHD training.
I agree, form (of your body) is important – keeping a strong shape. Being surprised is something should not happen to a MA, you should be aware. When the UNEXPECTED attack occurs though, you should have a strong go to shape, in Hsing-I it is Tiger Hands, it acts like general shield that covers the head and neck. Contact is mage against the shield, then use Gung-Fu from there.
If fighting become “boring”, you are either WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY too good for the people you are fighting, or you are not in the martial arts for the reason the martial arts were created. Health is a part of it. But if that is you main focus, you can go to a gyme and get better results, or do yoga.
We are all free to do as we choose, this is not a “train like I train post.” Just a call to keep it real. Because, let’s say you are a hardcore Wing Chun player, a real die hard. You meet someone somewhere and MA pops up. For argument sake let’s say he traing S. Mantis. You guys disagree over a principle.
As a martial artists talking about it is not the way, let’ see – prove it. If you are not willing to, or can not prove what you have learned works, then all you have is soemthing to put on the mantle, some photos in a costume, some cheesey non-weapons and a lot of wasted time.
I know people will slam me for this, I’m used to it. But I am searching for the cleanest, most clear way to end any confrontation – refinement. Work, work and more work. Fighting, testing, thinking, training some more, set backs and huge leaps forward. I am a MARTIAL ARTISTS.
If I never do a “form” again I will die a happy man. I do chi-gung, even while walking, and I maintain many shapes and my body will take on different forms, but I will not copy or follow a script. Martial Arts should be alive, fluid, create your own forms nitghly while training, the conflict in your mind, find the answers.
This is how I train.
KC Elbows
Thanks a bunch,I’d much rather come and visit your school and meet another forum member.
All I had in 96 was the downtown YMCA basement to work on forms.
St. Paddy’s day was alot of fun there.
I’ll be in touch when the time comes:cool: