In two years you’ll be able to take sifu Emin? Wow, you must be able to handle any of his students easily now! Would you like me to ask around and see if there’s anyone willing to arrange a meeting? I’ll extend the offer, but odds are I have some mass on you (6’1" 240lbs), and that might be construed as an unfair advantage, I’d not care to take.
AndrewN-
kettlebells ROCK!
I did 11x5 snatches each arm yesterday , 30 second rest intervals, six with the 1 1/2 pood and 5 with the 2 pood. Much fun, and even better when running sprints between sets.
Regarding External versus Internal, my question is, "who cares? This is definition bound thinking. Are there examples of good older fighters in the external arts, such as karate or you name it—Yes. Are there good ol’ masters in the internal arts—Yes. So, does it matter to us whether Wing Chun is internal or external?
Originally posted by AndrewS
[B]At least-
In two years you’ll be able to take sifu Emin?
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C’mon, guys, Atleast was only joking. He has a good attitude Would you recommend he concede that he’ll never be as good as “X”? I train to be better than everyone that I can be. It’s motivating, and it’s thinking positively. If you pin me down, I’ll have to answer that there are surely some who I could never beat in a fair fight. Of course, on the street, who plays fair?
[B]
kettlebells ROCK!
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There are a couple of guys in San Jose Wing Chun, Atleast’s seniors, who do resistance exercise. I’d tell them their Wing Chun will never be any good, but they’d likely kick my arse if I said so. Let’s just keep this our little secret, between list buddies.
In two years you’ll be able to take sifu Emin? Wow, you must be able to handle any of his students easily now! Would you like me to ask around and see if there’s anyone willing to arrange a meeting? I’ll extend the offer, but odds are I have some mass on you (6’1" 240lbs), and that might be construed as an unfair advantage, I’d not care to take. ]
the internal/external thing- at this point, my question is more ‘what are my mechanics and how can I do them better.’ Internal and external is a fairly artificial distinction. Saying that Tyson, for instance, doesn’t hit using the whole body with fluidity and an element of relaxation is, IMHO, silly.
The sifu Emin thing- look I’m not gonna go out in public and claim I could take Ken Chung in a couple of years. First, I’m not delusional, and I put some faith in the opinions I’ve heard of his skill. Second, it would be rude. Talking trash in public does no one any favors. Either find someone decent and go brawl with someone to break it up, or find someone decent and check out what you each do, become friends, then brawl when you know neither person is going to take advantage of the situation.
Much as I would like to surpass my teachers and various other figures of note, I realize there is little likelihood of that occuring in some cases. Having trained with professional fighters and national and world class athletes, I realize that there are combinations of talent, genetics, timing (i.e. when you start to train and your physical base), and dedication which you need to even enter that level.
Resistance exercise? Amongst your ilk? For Shame! There was a pretty funny discussion on the WCML a while ago on ‘resistance training’. There’s a **** near even divide within TWC, YKS, WT, and assorted other lines. Some guys in each line claim that to merely touch iron will debase your lightness, others (hi!) are raving fans of moving some metal. It’s all in how you do it.
FWIW- some comments without any intended reference to any lineage-on the weights issue…
Reference- the fight last night (154 pound-WBA championship boxing match) between Oscar de la Hoya and Fernado Vargas.
Vargas was slightly ahead at the end of the 4th or 5th round and had de la Hoya covering up on the ropes a couple of times before de la Hoya got away. Fernado definitely was and looked the stronger of the two. Both had trained incredibly hard and boxing requires an incredible base line training regimen with additional differences in details between camps. Around the the 7th round the tide turned and Oscar began to “get off” much earlier than Fernando… who was still “powerful”. In the 10th round Fernando( who I hoped would win) got knocked down. In the 11th- Fernando was knocked out and still groggy after the fight and was taken to a hospital for observation and in depth check up. Most of the media commentators- Larry merchant and Costas(sp?) are(ugh ugh) powder puff rhetoricians. Fortunately the shows do bring on some knowledgeable people. Last might they had again the top level trainer(Emmanuel Seward- who has trained Hearns, Lennox Lewis,Naseem etc etc). During his final commentary- Seward pointed out that some boxers these days
do some weights thinking it will add power- he mentioned Vargas and I think the past prime Tyson). Seward said that often weight training affects getting off as well as endurance in the late rounds. He attributed the increased gap between the skills of Oscar and Fernado in the late rounds in part atleast to the Vargas’ weight training factor. I am not particilarly a fan of Seward though I respect him. He is familiar with most training regimens and has visited vargas’s training camp. There is some talk of a Lennox Lewis match with the better Klitschko(sp?)(Vladimir?) brother. Again, I am nota Lewis fan though I respect his work.
Kllitschko has an advanced degree in “Exercise Science” and obviously does weights. While predictions in pugilism are a little better than in horse racing- my prediction.. a Lewis win…unless he is asleep at the wheel. Mind you- I am nota fan of Seward or Lewis.Also- in current Ring Magazine- there is a list of the 80 best fighters ever in modern(post John L Sullivan) boxing. From what I know of the training regimen of most- advantage- non weight lifters.
joy
The question was not if people think WC is internal or external. My question is what makes an art (any art) internal. I have yet to see a logical explanation.
That was basically my point. So many people are saying things like…never do such and such if your coming from an internal perspective. I would just for once like to hear some details and not blanket statements.
The farming argument was pointless. Go tell a farmer he doesn’t meet resistance offered by the elements. Tell him that the weights he encounters while working don’t offer resistance to his body. Then pat him on the shoulder and tell me if you find corded muscle (you will). There have been farmers in my family for over 200 years (I am not one) and they would get quite a chuckle out of such statements.
As far as ATleast goes…it was obvious to me that he was only joking about Emin and the two year thing. It is also obvious that he was serious when he started calling Emin a knucklehead in public. Emin has students on this forum and I doubt they care to hear their teacher disrespected time and time again. I know I wouldn’t care to hear someone calling my Sifu a knucklehead in public. That is rude and low-class.
Looks like you stirred up the hornets nest Mithrandir! Good luck finding the answer to your question, I think its as complicated as people amke it and not so complicated as people make it.
RR - Just as a personal experience, weight training can be a detriment to some types of martial training. I think some arts recquire your body be fluid, soft but strong. I think long hours working feilds, or the taichi ball can make you this way, its definitely not the same as weight training per se, as the latter is focused on gaining muscular strength and with this comes muscle mass. I used to be a serious weight lifter and I found that it got in the way of my martial arts at times. UF points out that proper weight training can make you flexible but I think its a trade off, although I was more flexible, larger muscles tend to get in the way of each other. We just recently had a gentleman who was with our class for about 7 months who weightlifted daily. He has been doing it for years, and does it everyday a few hours a day. He isnt gigantic but has some noticeable muscle mass. He finally had to come to the conclusion that it was one or the other, his weight training seemed to be holding him back. I myself have found that since I stopped doing all the weight training my body has become more supple and condusive to martial training.
The opinion that I have been forming for a while is that you can weight train and do martial arts, some arts will go ****her with little or none of it.
Let’s just keep this our little secret, between list buddies. 
There was a pretty funny discussion on the WCML a while ago on ‘resistance training’. There’s a **** near even divide within TWC, YKS, WT, and assorted other lines. Some guys in each line claim that to merely touch iron will debase your lightness, others (hi!) are raving fans of moving some metal. It’s all in how you do it.