I often see arguments saying saying WC (WT or VT) however you spell it is an internal art. Some say it is external. What in your opinion makes an art external or internal? In case your wondering, I don’t have an opinion and am honestly seeking information. I don’t believe in putting my art in a little box by saying it is this, or it is that. It is what it is. The question is not if you think it is internal or external, but what makes a martial art internal or external according to classification.
This subject eternally arises that is External versus Internal, and it rarely gets a concise answer because in all respects there isn’t one. After all you asking a group of people here who do not have full mastery over their arts but have a varying degree of experience withihn there chosen fields, and therefore speak from where ever they are on their path.
However to answer your question from my limited experience I would have to say that Wing Chun is primarily an external art but does have some elemenst of Internal, however compared to Taiji or Bagua then Wing Chun is definitely external.
hi Mithrandir
i believe all arts are both in my experience,b/c they are both used.i tend to find that something like buddhism,christanity,muslim etc are arts of the internal for their practises are of that nature.this is what i think is internal martial arts.am i wrong to think so.
p.s i do not think religion is a internal art but the indeviduality of that religion is.
The current vogue options for the I/E debate would be -
Internal/External to China in origin
Internal involves some kind of mental/psychic/energy training
Internal focusses more on fine structural mechanics involving whole body power generation & rooting.
Int involves more soft, flowing & non-confrontational. Ext more direct, hard, confrontational stuff.
etc etc.
Given that most styles contain a bunch of different facets that cover both sides of the spectrum, it’s like looking at an apple & saying it has to be sliced one way versus another. The statement has little to do with the apple & more with the people involved.
What does the spirit of w.c/w.t mean? if you travel the journey inwards then I would say that is internal if you just mimic the moves and the techniques without spirit then it is external.
So does your art have internal and external?
Like Sui said all M.A have internal and external.
So I would say to your specific question what makes an art internal is’ the practioner’
External arts are things like Karate and tae kwon do. They stress techniques and flashy movements. They are also concerned with building muscle. In external martial arts, your ability diminishes when you get older. Internal martial arts (tai chi, wing chun.. etc) are concered with other things. Such as listening to your opponent. (how much force they are useing, where they are pressing). Occupying the line. Neutralizing your opponents energy and utilizing it. Internal martial arts stress that building muscle is of no value. Your skill improves the older you get. it doesn’t diminish.
For example:
If an external martial artist punched you in the torso, they would use there muscle to bruise you and maybe break a rib and knock the wind out of you. If an internal martial artist hit you in the torso, the would puch with energy from the ground and you may or may not have a bruise. they would send their energy into specific areas to get the most damage. Probably the spine.
the difference between an external and internal martial art is real and vast. it is not just the way you veiw your art.
From China vs. from abroad
Taoist vs. Buddhist
‘Shaolin’ school vs. ‘Wudang’ School
Secret/closed vs. Public/open
Spirit/breath/intent vs. Muscle, bone, sinew
Micro-muscle vs. gross muscle
Refined power vs. raw power
Whole body vs. localized muscle
ground vector vs. local vector
Taiji/Xingyi/Bagua vs. Everything else
What ‘X’ says vs. what ‘y’ says
and the list goes on…
In truth, neither internal nor external, no matter how you choose to define it, are more noble, complicated, sophisticated, or better than the other. A good martial artists is a good martial artist and will typically beat the snot out of a bad martial artist no matter how much the bad martial artist holds his nose up or clings to fancy, trendy labels.
IMHO, WCK is about the center, about the balance. We apply a little to overcome a lot, whether that be a little alignment of our whole body against a lot of local strength in an opponent’s limb, or a little local power against an over-committence of our opponent’s whole body strength. We walk the line, neither clinging to nor being bound by extremes, and we fit whatever circumstances call for, labels not withstanding (who needs 'em, anyway?)
The question is an interesting study in group dynamics though.
If the person values ‘internal’ as a concept, often the definition will change so that ‘your’ style is always a member, along with a select few. Just part of the standard dichotomous analysis prevalent in heirarchical societies!!
yes leg muscle is developed as a result of continuous practice of the forms. but when i said what i did, i was thinking more along the lines of pushups and weight lifting.
yes leg muscle is developed as a result of continuous practice of the forms. but when i said what i did, i was thinking more along the lines of pushups and weight lifting.
That is interesting. Because I’ve have seen Hsing-I players doing pushups and Taiji players lifting weights.
That is interesting. Because I’ve have seen Hsing-I players doing pushups and Taiji players lifting weights. [/B]
Censored,
Agreed. That Taiji Sphere seems like it has a little weight to it. I bet a spear gets pretty heavy after practicing for an hour or so, among other training methods.
YM: “Noi Ga? What the heck is Noi Ga? That’s not a term used in martial arts in the region I come from.”
Now, if you asked him if Wing Chun Kuen was Yao (Soft), Sung (Relaxed), etc. I can only guess he would have nodded, said “Hai…” and taken another sip of his tea. Asking if its “Noi Gung” might be more interesting…
FWIW- If you ask some of the remaining elder generation if WCK is Internal, they’re more likely to recognize the word due to its proliferation, and more than a few would probably say ‘yes’, but their definitions would probably vary as well.
lifting weights tightens up muscles. and that is no good for internal martial arts. tense muscles in something like tai chi is like pinching off a hose. It stops the water from coming out.
the reason why lifting weights is bad (from an internal martial arts prospective) is because:
your training yourself to resist force, so when met with force, you’ll tend to want to use muscle
it makes you tense (because it tightens your muscle), and you have to be as relaxed as possible to feel the energy.
the tai chi sphere is heavy. about 35lbs. but you don’t deal with the weight with your arms. you use your whole body. when you throw it up, you have to use your legs and get the energy from the ground. Whole body unity is very important.
