Hey Jake,
I just got back from having lunch with Puyot Laoshi. He recalled Chang being at Suns school to learn the ground form. Apparently, Sun had high respect for Su Yu Chang because he (Chang) was known in Taiwan as the one who all the Mantis Boxers on the island invested their knowledge into.
M.
Desargo laoshi
Su indeed did have a reputation on the island that was most favorable. One of the best of his generation without a doubt. Cool that they shared knowledge like that.
As for Matute being all that he is said to be…I have heard from various individuals that such stories may not be as accurate as first thought. Not sure though since I have no first hand knowledge of any of it.
Thanks
Jake 
Hey Jake,
Thanks for the respectful title, but please call me Mike. Anyway, I do take back my previous statements about Matute…it was impulsive and a quick recollection of what I read on his site. But luckily a good friend smacked me upside the head with a good reminder of the validity of those claims.
Anyway, back on the question of Apps…
All that I can say is that Su Shifu learned from all the TLQ teachers on the island, and that I am currently unaware of any experiences Su Shifu has had. However, I do know of Sun Sifu’s reputation as a fighter and a thug (no disrespect). I understand that Sun Shifu was a no BS guy when it came to fighting, and yet he highly respected Su Shifu.
M.
Hehehe.. I had heard that he was a badass. I did see him at one of the Lily Lau events at Golden Gate park years ago. It was very obvious from how he moved that he was the real deal.
N.
Michael D,
Again thanks for posting Tony’s thoughts about the sets. Quick question.
I noticed that in his list he had #5 as Tang Lang Shou.
As it is taught now #5 is Lan Jie (intercept)and tang lang Shou is not taught.
Also wondering how many of the 8 sets listed are specific to 8 step. I would like to know where shyun got those sets from. As mentioned in another thread he added the tan tui and orignally said they came from Wei, though we now know that is not true.
So I am wondering what else he added to 8 step that was never implemeted ort taught for the 3 generations before him. Thank you…
Hello ED,
Actually, the list is from memory, so the chronological sequence may be out of order.
Shifu Puyot wanted me to clarify that in no way is he an authority on 8-Step or Xun Guang Long. He is merely sharing his notes from his experience and perspective.
With that being said:
Tang Lang Shou is not the same as the one represented by Gao Dao Sheng.
Shifu Puyot recalls Xun Shigong referring to the list as all 8 Step.
In Wei Xiao Tangs book, “Pratical Praying Mantis”, Xun pointed out a few “mistakes” when the book refers to the sets and which system they are associated with. Xun wrote notes in Shifu Puyot’s book identifying which sets came from specific branches of TLQ.
As far as where Xun got the sets from, he may be the only who can tell you. Everything else will always be questionable and subjective.
In regards to “old sets” vs. “new sets” it is my personal opinion that when the general public (people with no fighting experience) began to learn TLQ, the teachers needed to adapt by adding developmental sets to transition the students into the sophisticated movements and principles indicative of TLQ. I don’t have a doubt in my mind that Xun Shigong did the same thing.
Regards,
M.
Michael, thanks so much for the quick repy, and thank Tony for the info.
you said
[B]Xun wrote notes in Shifu Puyot’s book identifying which sets came from specific branches of TLQ.
this is exacly what I am lookig for…
As far as where Xun got the sets from, he may be the only who can tell you. Everything else will always be questionable and subjective.[/B]
Shyun had taught me that all 10 sets were form Wei, though recent findings make this untrue.
In regards to “old sets” vs. “new sets” it is my personal opinion that when the general public (people with no fighting experience) began to learn TLQ, the teachers needed to adapt by adding developmental sets to transition the students into the sophisticated movements and principles indicative of TLQ. I don’t have a doubt in my mind that Xun Shigong did the same thing.
Agreed however when I moved out to S.F. to live and train directly under him. he told me that after 6 years in the system I should now be shown the correct way as taught to him by Master Wei. At the time I didnt know there was any variation which to me there shouldnt be, but the whole trust thing always came up after he was burned by Kin the starter of this thread.
This tainted Shyuns teachings and he changed so much even he would get confused who he taught what to who!!!
then he would find himself changing the movements in he sets in the same day. I have them on tape with out editing the mistakes the “MASTER” made while demonstraitng the first 5 sets for us sifu trainee’s back in 95
I teach what and how I was taught by him so my students dont know the new way versus the old way. But this was apparent to them when other schools got together and did the forms differently. They realized they had learned he proper way. LOL well at the time who knows now?
I guess i am trying to find out the truth from the untruth. This is much harder than it sounds. But little by little I am getting there, with the help of peoplew ho hjave herlped me such as your self tony and many others that know who they are.. wink wink. thanks to all.
Ed
ED,
YOU KNOW AFTER EX_8STEP (KIN) GAVE HIS SIDE OF STORY. YOU STILL BELIEVED HE BETRAYED SHYUN? WHO ELSE CAN BACK YOUR STORY?
WILL SOMEONE WHO IS STILL AN ACTIVE STUDENT OF SHYUN COME FORWARD AND STRAIGHTEN OUT THIS SH**T ABOUT THIS EX STUDENT OF SHYUN. AND PLEASE PROVIDE FACTS DIRECTLY FROM SHYUN HIMSELF IF AT ALL POSSIBLE!!
PERSONALLY I AM NOT 100% CONVINCE BY YOUR STORY. THIS MAN IS NOT FROM TAIWAN AND MICHAEL DASARGO CONFIRMED WITH HIS SHIFU TONY (THANX MICHAEL). SO WHO IS REALLY LYING KIN OR SHYUN? WHO IS TRYING TO DECEIVE SHYUN’S STUDENTS AND FOR WHAT REASON. WHAT DOES SHYUN OR KIN HAVE TO LOSE BY LYING. MAYBE SHYUN TAUGHT KIN EVERYTHING IN PRIVATE AND SINCE HE IS NOT TEACHING, HE MADE THE RUMOR UP IN ORDER TO BREAK THE LINK TO HIS SCHOOL. POSSIBLY TO KEEP OTHERS AWAY FROM KIN DUE TO THE TURMOIL WITH THE BUFFALO SCHOOLS. A CONSPIRACY???
ON A SIDE NOTE, IN SOME OF YOUR PAST POST YOU WENT ALONG WITH SAYING SHYUN NEVER LEARNED THE REAL 8 STEP OR NOT THE REAL SOLE INHERITOR OF WEI’S 8 STEP. WHY ARE YOU STILL BOTHERING WITH SHYUN’S VERSION OF 8 STEP AND WHY NOT MOVE ON WITH A DIFFERENT MASTER THAT TEACHES REAL 8 STEP LIKE CHANG, PAUL LIN, OR OTHER WEI’S SENIOR STUDENTS. YOU NEVER GAVE US AN ANSWER. WOULDN’T YOU BE TEACHING YOUR STUDENTS SHYUN’S FALSE SYSTEM AND NOT THE TRUE TRADITIONAL 8 STEP.
ED, I DON’T MEAN TO DISRESPECT YOU, BUT I AM ONLY BEING THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE. 
:rolleyes:
Need Clarification From ED
Ed,
Please clarify the discrepencies of your posts. In this thread to Michael, you said you started in 1989 and have not met his shifu Tony. But in an old post to Michael (see below), you stated you were around during the years of robert the photographer 1986-87-88. You said you met shifu Tony during that time. This was during the time that shifu Tony was studying in SF. I think we are all confuse of your account. Please clarify the discrepencies.
PS - Again I mean no disrespect only need clarification.
Michael D. - Please help clarify the confusion.
EarthDragon08-24-2005, 08:29 PM
Mr Desargo,
Please say hi to tony for me. I met him many years ago in the Irving street school upstairs and still have him on tape doing the 40 throws on the the blue carpet.
[SIZE=“4”]Ask him hwe will remember, also mention that I was around in the years of robert the photographer 1986-87-88[/SIZE]He took all the large pictures 24 x36 of the then young shyun 4 of which I still own and have hanging in my school.
I beleive I am the only one who has these prints as well as the original magazines autographed by Shyun. Tony should remember all thsese things, and yes Dean is tony’s 5th generation kung fu brother and the starter of the ACMAF
he is part of the original group of students from the 80’s dean then moved to Buffalo and produced 5 sifu of his own those being kevin, george , steve, jack, and jerry. I got raqnked up to 5th silver then was fortunate enough to be accpeted to move to SF and live at teh school and got ranked shrfu dircetly from shyun as did only 3 people in the US the old fashion wa, , up until the money making scheme came into play.
three harmonies
I can tell you about thse money schemes as I know first hand.
federation dues 100.00 month to call your kwon kung fu usa, supposed to pay for flight and lodging for the annual sifu camp.. IT DOES NOT
shrfu uniform embroidered 450.00
solid gold mantis sifu pin 250.00 it is plated brass, I took mine to a jeweler.
grade testing 35.00 for sash and certificate, OK this one is ledgite
shrfu test 5,000.00 OK this one just sucks fro everyone
monthly collections for mantis mountian varies
those are right off the top of my head, those who do not comply with these fee’s/ dues even though they are certified 8 step shrfu’s and instructors are not even listed on the 8 step website.. howeve4r i was sent a letter that if i would like to pay 1,200.00 for past federation dues m name would be included on the site… I CHOOSE NOT TO…
Commoner,
wow who are you? you come out of the woodwork with so much information about 8 step but you only have 11 posts? can you indetify yourself for us? are you posting under a fake mane? for what reason? however for you because of perhaps your genuine interest and non disrepecting quesitons and comments I will try to answer your questions and clear up the confusion. I might have explained myself incorrectly.
I started 8 step in 1989 in clarence NY. I was previously in Gojyu ryu since 1983. I went to a seminar hosted by Dean and James Shyun where i met several of Shyuns students from S.F After the seminar I was so impressed I joined the ACMAF in 1989 and began to train with Dean untill 1995 when master Shyun allowed me to move to S.F and train direcly under him until i reached shrfu grade. It was there I met Robert who had since stoped training in 8 step but he gave me 4 huge pictures of a very young master shyun performing the stances that i still have hanging in my school to this day. i heard tony’s name several times while living there but never met him personally. I was given a tape of him and someone doing the 40 throws. I did meet several of the old students whom stopped by the school to visit, like young danny shyuns golden child. and Robert and others also whos name escapes me who married a girl from mexico, he to also knew quite a bit of 8 step. So I have a tape of tony doing the throws but never met sorry about the confusion. my mistake.
As far as Kin goes who knows. truth or not perhaps the ony ones who need to know the truth are Kin and Shyun.
And yes many things lead me to believe shyun perhaps is not the sole inheritor as he claims. But i got married and cannot travel to learn from other masters of 8 step I am not young anymore and not able to move around like I did in the 90’s have a wife, business and home.
Commoner no disrespect taken, just please clairify who you are and why you care so much? are you hiding something? I hope I covered everything. if not please PM me so we dont waste board time. be well.
Hello EarthDragon,
Thank you for your frank account. As my profile states I’m living in SF. I did meet Dean and Shyun briefly during a visit to his school many years ago. A past friend of mine whom I lost touch with (Christina K.) took me to the school to check it out. If you ask Dean he will remember Christina. She is half Japanese/Swedish(??). The last I heard she was in Colorado attending med school. That was many years ago.
After many years working in the business world, I am tired and was looking for a change. I am presently enrolled in the master program in UC Berkeley majoring in Asian Studies with a focus in Asian American studies. The Asian culture especially the Chinese and Japanese are my favorite. I will be finishing my master degree after next spring semester and I will continue on to the PhD program in Asian studies. My ultimate goal is to move to China to experience its culture first hand. I hope to do it within the next 5 years.
As for the martial arts, I learned Northern Shaolin from a student of Wing Lam for a few years. I have good friends in other MA like 7 Star & 8 Step. As you can see I made a post about a 7 Star form I learned. We teach each other what we know to get a familiarity of different martial art specifically northern styles.
Presently I am working on a thesis about the Chinese Kung Fu culture in today’s America. I hope possibly to expand my thesis and turn it into a book. This is where I want my real name to be anonymous. I hope the proceeds from the book can help fund part of my PhD studies.
A friend of mine whom often visit this site told me about the politics that were going on within the 8 Step communities. He said this would be helpful to my martial arts portion of my thesis. I joined this forum to get a first hand look on what goes on in the Internet in regards to the MA community.
My participation in these threads is not with bad intentions. I only wanted to document other people’s reaction and response for my studies. My studies of different Chinese MA is strictly for my own purpose of understand this particular aspect of the Chinese culture. I don’t have any intention to teach because I have no desire and do not have an allegiance to any particular styles. I hope I shed some light on my background.
I had also hoped some of Shyun’s current students would come forward to provide more insights.
To answer your questions regarding how fast I gain the knowledge about 8 step. I have a propensity for investigative journalism. I did research prior to my posting.
PS – This is where my name “commoner” means. I am not a master but a common person in the MA community
Commoner,
Well with that explanation I apologize for comming across as frank and harsh. I saw your post as an attack on my old teacher and friend Dean. I sometimes jump the gun and go on defense mode when new members post things that seem trollish and I always ask them for thier motives and reson for thier posts. please excuse my aprehension. I will be happy to help you with any questions you have. You can always PM me so as not t waste the board time. PS love SF and miss it dearly… Dean still lives there in the sunset, but does not speak to Shyun anymore. be well. PM me if you wish