[QUOTE=MightyB;1030301]So, what makes a style? Do you agree with my opinion? Why, why not?[/QUOTE]
IMO, a style should contain the folowing:
2 men drills
solo drills
equipment training
defense and counter
combo
principle and theory
Let’s use the 7* diu (hook), as example.
How do you train your diu with your partner in school?
How do you train your diu at home when you don’t have partner?
How do you train your diu by using weight equipment to enhance your ability?
When your opponent uses diu on you, how do you defense and counter it?
If your opponent escape out of your diu, what will be your next continuous move?
What’s the principle (theory) used in diu?
If you can have all those 6 answers for every moves in your style, you will have a good system.
[QUOTE=MightyB;1030464]Brendan Lai was a bad @ss. He embodied 7* with basically one move which he mastered to perfection and could use it in about any situation and that was ou lou choi. [/QUOTE]
Brendan Lai had a very nice 8 moves combo. I stole it by watching him taught his senior student. His student spent an entire hour working on this combo.
Right hand touch opponent’s right wrist.
Left hand touch opponent’s right elbow.
Right palm chop at opponent’s right side neck.
Left hand take over opponent’s blocking left hand.
Right palm chop at opponent’s left side neck.
Right hand hook back opponent’s blocking right arm wrist.
Left hand hook take over opponen’s right arm wrist.
Right hand strike at opponent’s face with the back of the hook.
[QUOTE=MightyB;1030486]I did not study under Master Lai. My 7* lineage is strictly Chung. I use Lai as an example because his ou lou choi was sooooooo fast mean and bad @ss. It was an offensive weapon, a defensive weapon, heck, I think he could use it to fix cars he was so good with it. But, I think as an example of representing a style - he had the right idea. It was with perfection of application under pressure. His forms were d@mn good, you can see for yourself on youtube. But his ou lou choi was unmatched in the mantis world.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1030591]LOL !
Sure, I can always pick up the subtle nuainces of moves going at warp speed ![/QUOTE]
I know, but I tried to find it as a single technique demonstration and all I could find were douche bag wannabes on e-how, and they weren’t doing that move.
A style or system (if you want to play that dichotomy game), is a a delivery system for a core set of techniques. For example, TKD has preferred stances, usually side; preferred techniques, usually high kicks; and strategies that help to deliver those high kicks, usually involving more kicking including feint kicks.
Certainly some people will say that certain aspects of a training method must be present to have a particular style. In some cases they are probably correct and in others not. Some suggest that there is no Wing Chun without Chi sao. However, I would suggest that better WC evolves without it.
[QUOTE=MightyB;1030684]Isn’t tiger mouth forward more of an Eagle Claw thing?[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure about Eagle Claw, but in Taiji Lu, Taiji double pulling, and SC Lou Shou all have tiger mouth facing forward. It’s easier to turn it into a shoulder lock, or used in many throws (similiar to Judo sleeve hold). For striking purpose only, whether the tiger mouth face forward or backward, since it’s a very short temprary contact, it won’t matter that much.
[QUOTE=MightyB;1030464]Brendan Lai was a bad @ss. He embodied 7* with basically one move which he mastered to perfection and could use it in about any situation and that was ou lou choi. If you were a kickboxer - he’d nail you with it. If you were a grappler - he’d nail you with it - if you did wing chun - he’d nail you with it - heck, if you claimed you did mantis - he’d nail you with it. He could nail anyone with it (and then he’d follow through with something nastier). That to me said more than anything that he was a master of mantis.
of forms, terminology, and whatever else mattered less than that one move.[/QUOTE]
The technique is not the system. Ou lou choi is not just the technique. So “embodied” is a good term.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1030501]- What’s the principle (theory) used in diu?
If you can have all those 6 answers for every moves in your style, you will have a good system.
Brendan Lai had a very nice 8 moves combo. I stole it by watching him taught his senior student. His student spent an entire hour working on this combo.
Right hand touch opponent’s right wrist.
Left hand touch opponent’s right elbow.
Right palm chop at opponent’s right side neck.
Left hand take over opponent’s blocking left hand.
Right palm chop at opponent’s left side neck.
Right hand hook back opponent’s blocking right arm wrist.
Left hand hook take over opponen’s right arm wrist.
Right hand strike at opponent’s face with the back of the hook.
It was done in 3 hopping steps.[/QUOTE]
Just as there is a theory used in the diu movement, there is a theory used in ou lou choi technique. Ou lou choi is not just the literal technique that many people think of when they hear the term.
In the 8 move example, there is ou lou choi theory.
The first 3 moves are ou lou choi using grinding palm technique.
The last 3 moves are ou lou choi using all mantis claw to intercept, control, and strike.
Is the entire 8 move 3 technique combo also ou lou choi?
If there are still 3 hopping steps, maybe that is practice in the second hour
Ou lou choi is at many levels. Even a throw can have ou lou choi. What about a combination throw? Could there be Shuai Chiao with a Mantis feel?
[QUOTE=-N-;1030849]In the 8 move example, there is ou lou choi theory.[/QUOTE]
I like to call it “switching hands” theory.
Your opponnet blocks your offense hand.
Your defense hand re-block your opponent’s block.
Your offense hand will be free again to attack.
[QUOTE=-N-;1030849]Could there be Shuai Chiao with a Mantis feel?[/QUOTE]
IMO, The Mantis system is the most suitable system in CMA to be integrated with SC. If you can make your (Gou Lou Cai Shou) work in combat, you can apply almost any throw that you like. After you have obtained your opponent’s elbow control (the 1st contact point), to obtain the 2nd contact point will be much easier, you can be obtained it when you enter.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1030850]IMO, The Mantis system is the most suitable system in CMA to be integrated with SC. If you can make your (Gou Lou Cai Shou) work, you can apply almost any throw that you like. After you have obtained your opponent’s elbow control (the 1st contact point), to obtain the 2nd control point will be much easier, you can be obtained it when you enter.[/QUOTE]
Thank you.
So my question was more rhetorical, really.
I see your example of 1st contact point, 2nd control point, and take your opponent.
We like to see contact, control, take (intercept, control, strike) even not just hands, wrist, elbow. And even not just physical.
:eek:
