This information comes from a magazine called WUSHU KUNG FU QIGONG Aug/Sep 1996.In it it talks about these chinese Dragon styles 1The Wutang Dragon styles are called 1Black dragon this is a external style 2Clear Dragon style is a internal style and is somtimes called Gray dragon,Blue dragon,Green dragon,The Clear dragon was called these other names by the WuTang monastery to confuse enemy spies by concealing the Clear dragon style3 Sky dragon this is a internal style and is the acrobatic style of the WuTang Dragon family. The OMAY Monastery Dragon style family 1Golden dragon this is a internal style2Silver dragon this is a internal style 3Fire dragon this is also a internal style 4The red dragon is the external style of the Omay Dragon style family.The OMay red dragon is combined with the fire dragon to be soft and hard the student will learn both styles for a well rounded style.OMAY monastery also paired off the two other dragon styles the Golden dragon and the Silver dragon also for a well developed style the student will learn these to internal dragon styles.This article that i got this information from was written by someone named Grandmaster King he learned from a shaolin abbot and a Daoist priest.this article also talks about shaolin dragon claw and it also talks about these dragon styles such as there stances and tecniques it is 7pages long so if anybody wants to no more about what is written on these dragon styles in this article ask me and i will write what this article says about them.THE WuTang Black dragon the Omay Red dragon and the WuTang Sky dragon sound real cool does anybody know or have any experience or any other information on these styles.FIRE HAWK
Fire Hawk-
Interesting Info. I practice Lung Ying which is a form of Dragon fist popular in Hong Kong and Southern China. It is a Shaolin based system and was later refined by the late Master Lam Yu Kwai, who learned Dragon style from a Shaolin Monk in the late 1800’s.
I know there are alot of variations of Dragon systems as you mentioned, I’ll probably order a back issue of that magazine.
Peace
Fire Hawk, I would be interested in this information.
Lung Ying, Is your system related to the golden dragon ground fighting system I’ve seen on the web? Can you give me some info on this system?
LUNG YING Lam Yu Kwai s DRAGON STYLE is cool i have a book on this style called LUNG YING MOR KIU by authors CHOW FOOK and CS TANG i wish i could learn this style but there are no sifu s where i live and you cant learn from a book. Valraven what would you like to know about wich Dragon style there are many of them in the article and the article is real long.FIRE HAWK
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FIRE HAWK:
LUNG YING Lam Yu Kwai s DRAGON STYLE is cool i have a book on this style called LUNG YING MOR KIU by authors CHOW FOOK and CS TANG i wish i could learn this style but there are no sifu s where i live and you cant learn from a book. Valraven what would you like to know about wich Dragon style there are many of them in the article and the article is real long.FIRE HAWK[/quote]
I've seen CS Tang's advertisment on the Lung Ying book. How informative is it?
Molum_jr Chow Fook and CS TANG book is 255 pages it has a very long form thatis 63pages long this part of the book is in english it tells you how to do the form and has things like right mor cup, left mour cup, big bo left long king,lup shui sui kiu,big poo sam tung,big poobui chee, big poo chung tsui,sink and break bamboo,hoi dee lou yuet,right upstand lam dar,left lup shui right cheong tsu,dui ma mor cup,continuose big boo mor cup,big boo sheung pui kim,downstand ton kiu ,big boo right punch, these are some of the names in the formthere are many more.This book also has pictures of LAM YU KWAI and adrawing type of picture of the TAI YUK MONK this book goes into the history of the style and its lineage most of this book is written in chinese if you can read chinese then you will learn a lot of things about this style i cannot read chinese i wish i could. FIRE HAWK
Lung Ying, Is your system related to the golden dragon ground fighting system I’ve seen on the web? Can you give me some info on this system?
Valraven-
I’m not sure how closely related Lung Ying is with the golden dragon system, but I wouldn’t doubt that there are some similarities since most of these styles are Shaolin based. We do have alot of ground fighting techniques though. There is definitely alot of confusion about the origin of alot of the Dragon systems, but to think of them as all Shaolin systems which developed differently may clear it up for you.Master Lam took alot of the best aspects from different Dragon systems and put them together to form Lung Ying. Alot of people praise him for “breathing new life into the system”. We have external and internal aspects in Lung Ying which makes the syatem very complex in the later stages. It is also worth noting that Master Lam accepted alot of challenges and was said to be undefeated.
The style is widely practiced in Southern China and Hong Kong but is very rare here in North America. If you want to know more, there is a pretty good Write-up on Dragon style in the book “Kung-Fu: History Philosophy and Technique” by David Chow and Richard Spangler.
FireHawk-
I also have Chow Fook’s book on Lung Ying. His book was criticized by my Si Gong’s (who studied under Master Lam) because he only studied under Master Lam for a couple years, and isn’t considered to be an authority on the system. They do give him credit for having put a book together since no one else ever did on Lung Ying! Most of the movements are accurate like Sup Lok Dung, the 16 movements form. Some of his other movements are done a bit differently from the way we do them, but that may be because of his age at the time of the book, he died shortly afterwards. All in all, I think it’s a good book to have. You can find a picture of Chow Fook next to Lam Yu Kwai’s son in in “Kung-Fu: History Philosophy and Technique” by David Chow and Richard Spangler.
Please feel free to check out my schools website at:
http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/dragonstyle/kungfu.html
Peace 
Hi all,
I studied under Sifu Chow Fook back in the late 70s and early 80s. He was a kind soul.
He studied Bak Mei under Sigung Cheung Lai Chun first and then with Sigung Lam Yui Kwai. So his Lung Ying has more a Bak Mei flavour to it. I understand it that Lung Ying excepts and sometimes exchanges students with other systems; therefore, one would see different flavour in different lineage. Personally, I agree that Sifu Lam Woon Kwong’s (Sigung’s elder son) lineage is a solid representation of Lung Ying. I sought out a mentor, Sifu Sam Hung, who is from Sifu Lum Woon Kwong’s lineage, to continue my Lung Ying’s study.
BTW, I have not yet read the book by Sifu Chow Fook. I, too, wonder how it is like?
Mantis108
Contraria Sunt Complementa
Mantis108,
I remember my Sifu saying the same thing, that Chow Fook was more of an authority on Bak Mei rather than Lung Ying. I think that it’s great he put a book together though, I definetly recomend you to get a copy if possible, it’s mostly in Chinese(I was thinking of having someone translate it for me).
How do you find Lung Ying as compared to any other styles you may have practiced? I practiced a Northern style prior to this and I feel much more comfortable with Lung Ying (especially the stances).
Peace
Dragoners,
I must say that CS Tang’s book is the most authoritative reference to LY that exists at the moment. Chow Fook has an international reputation as an exceedingly skilled and gracious, open minded promoter of the (closed door) Hakka systems.
BTW - Chow Fook was (and is still) known to the Dragon Community as being the “Elder Brother” of the Dragon School - One of Lam Yiu Kwai’s top seven disciples. I wonder why any legitimate practitioner in the Lung Ying community would venture such a controversial view on Chow Fook’s reputation (?).
Smashing Bridge Kevin
(I did not write anything, yet this infernal, cursed device posted me twice in the same vein)
[This message has been edited by Kevin Barkman (edited 08-02-2000).]
Kevin, Mantis, nice to see you both. :}
If memory serves me correct (and I’ll admit sometimes I order steak but end up with a burger), “Lungying” is a new student to the system and Yip Wing Hung is his sifu. So there are differences between his perception of the system and “ours”. Maybe the comment from his sifu was percieved in error and relayed without forethought. My master teaches restraint and goodwill, foundations of lung ying.
I have Yip’s video; I’m purchasing Tang’s book. I have learned from one, I hope to learn from the other. I find seeing the range of differences as well as similarities is informative and helpful. So Robert and Kevin, how do the above Dragons relate to lung ying?
PS: there is a saying in the race horse industry: “they’re ALL related to Secretariat”. Change that to Lam Yew Kwai…
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by meltdawn:
[b]Kevin, Mantis, nice to see you both. :}
Maybe the comment from his sifu was percieved in error and relayed without forethought. [/b][/quote]
Meltdawn-
There was absolutely no direspect intended for Chow Fook or anyone else, I am sure he was a kind and knowledgeable master, and I must say that all of my statements are thought out before I make them. The comment that was made by our Si Gong was in regard to Chow Fook being more of an authority on Bak Mei rather than Lung Ying. He also felt it great that someone put together a book on our system, since no one else ever has, and he was very interested in the book. Since he studied directly under Lam Yu Kwai, I highly value his comments and opinions so I thought I would share them with all of you. My Sifu is one of the kindest, patient, and rightous people I have ever known, as well as a solid aothority on our system, I consider it an honor and a privilage to be able to study with him and our Si Gong’s.
Meltdawn, As you stated “there are differences between his perception of the system and ours”. Yes! Of course! I really don’t believe that how long I have been studying or who’s my Sifu , is reason for you to dis-credit what I stated. There are always different interpretations of systems, that’s how so many variety’s of the same system develops, and that’s why there are so many different opinions. I really hope you aren’t implying that your interpretation of Dragon form is “the right one”. So, there was no “error” in what I stated, different interpreatations exist, in this light, we can learn and add new perspectives to what we already know.
Peace to all
meltdawn,
Where in Florida do you study Lung Ying? Does your school have a web page? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hi All,
When discussion involves our loved and respected people, we all tend to over reacting a little. We must understand that as individual we all develope differently, eventhough we are in the same family of Kung Fu. Lung Ying give his honest opinion, Kevin repond with love of his Sigung and passion for his arts, and Meltdawn trying to restore harmony between us by explain what might be varying perspective. All in all, nobody is trying to discredit anybody. It is definitely, not Lung Ying is about. Remember that LungYing is an Buddhist temple art. We don’t have to see eye to eye with other family members but we will still love them all, right? Anyway, we are getting off topic here. Sorry to other posters.
Back to the topic. Many of the Dragons are, IMHO, often present as separate forms within other systems. There is rarely a fully developed system. Lung Ying, IMHO, is by far the most well developed Dragon system. It has all that you want from a Kung Fu system. Philosophies, theories, techniques, metodology, traditions and history are all structured into one nice package. Study of just one or two aspects can be quit a handful. A word on the techniques, there are many powerful fist strikes in Lung Ying than most other Dragons. If you are thinking holding a “ball” in dragon’s claw and doing numerous twist stances (to training the spirit) than you haven’t seen the real combat oriented Lung Ying.
Mantis108
Contraria Sunt Complementa
Really well said. I am always anxious to see how other schools interprete Dragon, I’m sure we would be surprised how much insight it can give us. One school may excel in a certain aspect where the other school lacks, and vice versa. Sharing can be a wonderful thing if we allow it to be.
Back to the topic. I’d love to find out exactly how Lung Ying relates to the other Dragon systems, this would be a great topic of research. mantis108, Do you believe that it all originates with the Dragon in the Shaolin animal fists? It would seem to make sense but I’m only speculating.
Peace to all
Hot topic, eh gang?
LUNG YING:
Lung, I hope Mantis clarified my reaction for you, I meant NO disrespect. We in Dragon must remain strong brethren. Due to the scarcity of our fellow practitioners in this country, we must also strive to hold true to its traditions and history.
I must make two more mentions to further clarify the discussion of the book.
“I also have Chow Fook’s book on Lung Ying. His book was criticized by my Si Gong’s (who studied under Master Lam) because he only studied under Master Lam for a couple years, and isn’t considered to be an authority on the system.”
In 1945, Chow Fook operated 16 gyms in China. in 1962 he established a REGISTERED Dragon Fist school. This means the Lam family approved AND authorized. I only say this to give face to a great teacher so that others who may read this post gain further insight.
“Si Gong’s (who studied under Master Lam
…” “Since he studied directly under Lam Yu Kwai”
It is my understanding that Yip studied under Cho Sam who studied under Lam Yew Kwai. Do you study directly under Yip? So was it Cho Sam who had the opinion? I met and had lunch with Yip’s top student and now a master of his own school, sifu Joe Cheung (I hope I got his last name correct!) and his class in Chinatown after the Asian Festival in May. They are a GREAT group of guys!!! I hope to visit their school when I come back up in October.
FIREWALK
Here are my thoughts on the Dragon schools:
Wu Tang and Omei were temples like Shao Lin. I would hazard a guess that these styles came out of each temple’s five animals studies. As lung ying became a system unto itself, so must have these other temple’s dragon forms. Buuut, I don’t know! I study some shaolin five animals, and the dragon is different than lung ying.
BILLY PILGRIM:
I’m about an hour south of Tampa. I’m sorry, but I have no website to pass on. My teacher does not have a school nor teach openly at this time. As far as other sites go, there are Yip’s, CSTang’s, Steve Martin’s and then there’s a Green Dragon school and lung shou pai.
Hello all,
Mantis 108 and Meltdawn, thanks for the gentle rebuke - I apologize if I seemed a bit cross there. I learned the hard way (and am still trying to hammerfist it into my brain) not to make public my own teacher’s comments and opinions, but to limit my public comments to what I have experienced myself and know to be true.
Anyway, I think an excellent body of work has been emerging from the Dragon community, starting with Sifu Martin’s articles, then Sifu Yip’s videos (I am really looking forward to the “advanced” video should he ever decide to make one), then on to CS Tang’s releases (and Sifu Ma Gok Fai’s VCD). Same kudos to Sifu Luo Han Zhong for his efforts!
There are also a few other articles posted on Dragon (from Tai Yuk Lineage), including mention from Jane Hallander, David Chow and Richard Spangler, and most recently Simon Lailey who did an article on Master Cheung Kwok Tai of the HK Dragon Sign Athletic Association. I had the priviledge of training with Mr. Lailey in HK - he was in the process of writing several articles, not only on LY, but Bak Mei and Jook Lum as well.
By the way, if there are any students from Sifu Yip Wing Hong’s school on here, I would really appreciate learning what the current school’s address is. Sifu Yip did me a great favour several years back, and wanted some information, but the two letters I have sent were returned - I guess he moved from his old location?
Cheers! Kevin
Kevin,
I think we can all learn something from your opening paragraph.
I checked the espy site, but I doubt something sent to them would make it to Yip. I’ll ask my sifu in NYC for his address. I know they are on good terms, so he should have it. Otherwise, Lung Ying should definitely know it.
I would love to have the links or possobly copies of the articles you mention. I am very fortunate to have a teacher who is not only very forthcoming with information but receptive to other views. Also, his input on the background of other lung ying masters gives me a good perspective of the style.
I have a notebook in which I am keeping all info and correspondence relating to lung ying. It is also a journal. I showed this to my teacher the first time with great trepidation. His reaction was positive; he encouraged me to dig deeper and record all my experiences along this journey so that maybe one day I can write a book. Wow…
Would you correspond with me via e-mail? Robert can vouch for my validity… no, wait! Don’t ask him, he’ll only say what a pest I am!!!
Hi Meltdawn - please email me anytime!
Kevin Barkman hkbark@escape.ca
cheers - Kevin