Main question:
I would like to know from any Dragon style practioners if there are big differences between branches of the style.
Subsidiary question:
Specifically, I would like to know if those practicing the same style as Nerval for instance on the forum are considered mainstream Dragon branch. This branch of Dragon resembles in execution a lot some of the HK Pak Mei schools I have visited in the past.
Thanks
EAZ
Hi EAZ
I am not aware of the existence of completely separate branches within the system. However, some people on this forum are better qualified than myself to answer your question.
Is there any dragon in Vietnam? How does it look like?
Regards
Sifu Andy Troung teaches Dragon Boxing & Bak Mei here in Sydney & i’m pretty sure they are from Vietnam lineage. I have’nt seen his gung fu thou but i’ve heard others mention him here, i think Fierce Tiger knows him & has seen his gung fu maybe he can help.
There is another Dragon style at Cabramatta:rolleyes: do any of u Sydney guys know anything about this place?
Also does anyone know if there is or was a Northern Dragon style & is/it anything similiar to the Southern Dragon.
GOLDEN ARMOUR
Hey Buddy,
Sifu Troung teaches lung ying and bak mei as well as jow gar. He has learn dragon from Master Chan here in cabramatta as well as i think some other places. I know his bak mei is from vietnam and many sources too.
any questions eaz il ask him as he is my dai go big brother hahaha.
later
FT
Robert Chan - HK Dragon Style. (Andy Truong’s teacher.)
EAZ
I was interested in doing Dragon for a while but it never came to fruition but I found Sifu Andy Troung’s website where if you want to e-mail him any questions about the style I geuss he will answer you http://www.atu.com.au/~wahnam/ . I also heard that Pak Mei has a bit of dragon in it in the turns or attacks to angles or something like that but I am sure that Sifu Andy Troung or Sifu Gary H (Fiercest Tiger himself) can explain a little bit more. I saw one of Sifu Andy Troung’s student do a dragon form once and it looked like a very smooth, violent form. I have heard of both above mentioned Sifu’s in my stickybeaking and both have a pretty good rep so you should get some quality advice from them.
Hope ou find your answers you are after.
grogan
Thanks for the kind words.. Andy Sifu is very good and is opening up a fulltime school soon, ill keep everyone posted as he teaches many styles of kung fu.
As for the side stepping in Pak Mei it does have a dragon element although i have never seen Lee gar to say if it was also added!
Pak Mei can seem very linear at times, but look deeper within and see the angles its all there in the structure. Is back to basics!
anyway i bet Eaz is gonna have a brain storm on this one! 
thanks again
Garry aka FT
Ahh… these people saying nice things about you…and yet you are a traitor 
(Brain storm below)
After having lunch with a certain Nerval today, a Dragon practitioner, and a conversation with Mr. “pretty good rep” last week, it has come to my understanding that Dragon style at high level may incorporate very soft movements (although rapid) and that in this respect it bears a certain ressemblance to certain Pak Mei principles found in certain schools and considered advanced. (How’s that for political correctness).
Apparently not all Dragon schools go along with this soft theory though.
To the best of my understanding.
Dragon and Pak Mei
Hello Gentlemen,
To the knowledgable amongst us it is nothing new to note that the grand-masters of Pak Mei and Dragon were very close and exchanged many techniques, spending menay years training and travelling together. Much of the Pak Mei Grandmaster Cheung Lai Cheun’s pre-Pak Mei training contained Dragon style, and it carried into his Pak Mei as well.
However, some Pak Mei has more Dragon “spice”, some has less. It is my understanding, however basic, that one can see this in the waist of a Pak Mei practitioner. The crunching of the belly is given a bit of a sideways twist, especially when pulling in. This requires the training to separate the hip rotation from the waist rotation.
Additionally, the repitition of 3 techniques in a row is a dragon legacy too, or so I’m told. I wasn’t there, if you catch my drift.
Some of the Pak Mei lineages renditions of Gau Bo Twi exhibit this repition of 3 more than others, for example.
The Pak Mei pattern Ying Jao Lin Que is a dragon pattern, or at least very heavily inspired by Dragon Style, and it is the most advanced of the “lesser” forms.
I hope this is of some use.
Dragon spice!
Hi yam cha,
I’ve found Ying jow lin Q does have more of the Dragon flavor to it then other forms as you say. It certainly starts in a very similar way to Dragon forms and seems to focus on the angles a little more than pakmei forms do, though this is not a big difference so it can be argued. it’s linear in it’s direction but attacks the angles alot.
Where as most of the 'pakmei" forms tend to be more linear in their attack, this is being general of course.
Of course though Sam Mun bagua, Sam Man Kuen for example attack the angles alot( being the focus of these forms) are they considered Pakmei forms or again more influenced from Dragon?
I see the angle stepping like this- Pakmei when stepping to 45 is alittle more sharper but Dragon stepping is more rounded , gliding into the angle, I may be splitting hairs and in the end not much difference can be made but hey , it all works
angles
When and why would we use the angles, this is the key behind the kuens?
Used in yin and yang theories also!
FT
… and I couldn’t stay away from this one.
EAZ:
"I would like to know from any Dragon style practioners if there are big differences between branches of the style. "
Differences, yes. Big, not on the surface. The world sees one branch, not the tree. All teachers take what they have and teach accordingly, same as in any kung fu. The internet has opened communication between the current generation of dragon practitioners, and we find how much we have in common, and appreciate the different nuances. One day we may all sit at the same table. I hope I don’t get the bill.
“I would like to know if those practicing the same style as Nerval for instance on the forum are considered mainstream Dragon branch.”
After the reactions I got this past weekend, I don’t think any dragon is mainstream!
“… it has come to my understanding that Dragon style at high level may incorporate very soft movements (although rapid) and that in this respect it bears a certain ressemblance to certain Pak Mei principles found in certain schools and considered advanced.”
Lung ying, at it’s highest level, is considered internal. My own struggle to progress involves elimination of tension (drop shoulders, drop elbows). I know nothing about Pak Mei. What I have seen of it seems to share techniques, but not power generation.
Yum Cha:
“The crunching of the belly is given a bit of a sideways twist, especially when pulling in. This requires the training to separate the hip rotation from the waist rotation.”
While the manifestation of hip and waist independance may differ according to style, it is my opinion that this is a fundamental and much-overlooked area of any good kung fu.
“Additionally, the repitition of 3 techniques in a row is a dragon legacy too, or so I’m told.”
Two is a nice number also.
Yum Cha:
“The Pak Mei pattern Ying Jao Lin Que is a dragon pattern, or at least very heavily inspired by Dragon Style, and it is the most advanced of the “lesser” forms.”
and BIU JI:
“I’ve found Ying jow lin Q does have more of the Dragon flavor to it then other forms as you say. It certainly starts in a very similar way to Dragon forms and seems to focus on the angles a little more than pakmei forms do, though this is not a big difference so it can be argued. it’s linear in it’s direction but attacks the angles alot.”
The Ying Jow I have, from my Lung Ying, must be very different from Pak Mei’s or Yau Kung Mun’s. My very, very superficial understanding of my Ying Jow makes it one of the hardest forms I have because it does deviate from the percieved “dragon flow” while exemplifying what dragon should be.
fiercest tiger:
“When and why would we use the angles…?”
Why, for holding up shelves!
Of course, that’s all just my opinion… I could be perfectly wrong.
Melty
The ying jow of your system isnt the ying jow we are talking about, the ying jow lin kuil was made from lung ying mor kuil form.
i like the number 4 as it also represents death!:eek: thats why the 4 finger strikes and four follow ups, 3 is good but not as good!!!
luv u all
FT:)
Dragon techniques
Hi Melty,
Thanks for weighing in.
FT, I have heard Ying Jau called Lung Ying Mor Que before by Sifu. I was going to say that but didn’t want to confuse things. Does that mean anything to you Melty?
I should say up front though that I know almost nothing about Dragon style, other than the fact that Sifu Chan in Sydney is very highly respected.
FT, Linda’s Lung Ying site is gone these days, have you heard anything from her lately?
I like the number 5280, not sure why though…<grin>
yum cha
dont know where she is ,never met her either ..lol I also was ordained with master robert chan at the taoist temple together. hahaha maybe they are preparing themselves for something?
i think you got your numbers crossed yummy…its 187, 911, 000 hahaha death again and its in 3’s…oops meltys right!! for once or maybe not.
i still say she should fight instead of do forms? try and kill your opponent in the ring for real!!:eek:
bye melty
FT:p
Nim Kiu as we call it (ur YJLK) was from Lum A Haap according to the BM tradn.
lum ah hap
wasnt he dragon style or lee gar?
FT
Lum a Haap -> Dragon Style.
Sam Mun Kuen was from Lei Ga
Meltdawn
Your Ying jow is your 2nd level form or close to there is it? I studied some dragon before and the 2nd level form was Ying jow which yes is very different to Ying jow lin Q, my mistake earlier 
Eagle Claw Sets
Howdy,
Quite frankly, I don’t understand what, if any, similarities there are between Lung Ying Ying Jow, and the Bak Mei Ying Jow form. I also don’t see any similiarity between the Bak Mei Ying Jow and LYMK.
The Dragon Style Ying Jow is a very demanding, long, and complex set compared to the other LY forms. Great for demonstrations and tournaments - a very comprehensive compendium of basic (and some advanced) Lung Ying concepts. People see the Ying Jow and think this is the most advanced LY form, although the higher forms, although simple in appearance, are far more subtle and difficult to understand / execute.
There are obvious similarities between LYMK and SBMK. I believe CLC took LYMK and modified it with some higher (such as the “absorbing” hand spoken of in a previous thread) LY concepts (and perhaps with other styles, though I would wonder what exactly), and created SBMK to his own preferences.
Both are beautiful and powerful arts - in the hands of the dedicated practitioner!