you stated earlier that all of the techniques you utilized in MMA were pure Tai Chi
Nope…I stated nothing of the sort. All I wrote was that I don’t go outside of Tai Chi to have it stand on its own.
For instance, (indulge me here) how would you deal with a wrestlers double leg - technique only
I can’t answer hypothetical questions from a technicentric view. That’s not how I understand Tai Chi. It’s not how I coach others to understand it either.
random attack drills don’t involve “jumping” anyone hahahaha, i look back on it and it does read like that is what I meant.
oops.
random attack drills are not sparring.
it can be two or more people.
The purpose is to strictly defend yourself from any range and from multiple attackers. That is where the “no prior knowledge comes in”.
You can increase the diffculty by bringing in multiple attackers using perhaps weapons, perhaps nothing, both at once, one at a time etc. It is a pretty effective way to get you thinking on your feet.
The amount of force is entirely up to the players or of course the rules of the school.
peace
First, whoever posted the bit about the two fundamental points that MMA guys are trying to make, they hit that dead on. As far as MMA types being disrespectful, that’s a matter of individuals, not of style. It’s also a matter of 90% of the time somebody claiming to be a “traditional,” artist steps into the ring against an MMA type in an event, he has his ass handed to him. Probably speaks more to the training than the style, but thems the breaks.
We are equally tired of hearing:
“MMA is the quick/lazy/impatient way out–you don’t have the dedication it takes to master a TRUE martial art.”
–good is good, and it takes time to get that way. People with a lack of dedication don’t stick around at an MMA gym–it tends to hurt too much and involve too much physical effort for the undedicated.
“A traditional CMA has all the answers if you train long enough and do the forms properly… (esp in response to REAL takedowns from a REAL grappler of some sort (shuai chiao included)”
–I’ll just elbow the base of his…Hey! How did I wind up flat on my back? No matter, I’ll just gouge his eyes/rip his throat/insert favorite non-groundfighting ground technique here. HEY! How did that guy just break my arm/choke me out/tattoo my face?
“The ring is not the street.”
–Nope. It’s not. Neither is the Kwoon. You want to ‘do a street art’, be my guest. I’ll send flowers to the funeral. The fact is that only the street is the street. We can argue from here to Sunday about proper methods of “training for the street.” I’ll take gross motor skills applied against resisting opponents, thanks. I do agree that ONLY ring training misses certain things–surprise attacks, multiple opponent scenarios, etc, but those are easily tacked on given the very solid base that ring training provides in fighting skills.
“Well, THAT fighter (who was one of the 90% above) wasn’t a true representative of ‘insert art here’”
–Ok, then get somebody who is. Somebody out there MUST want to fight!
Is ringfighting or using a ringfighting style a must for self-defense? No–absolutely not But “TMA” would do well to take a page out of the ringfighting manual when it comes to the training methods. Those that already engage in that sort of training (which is obviously not unique to ringfighting, just more prevalent in that type of training) are certainly on the right path.
The training
Merryprankster just talked about the training who could be the a big factor in the unsuccess of tma in mma events…I agree with that and I said it many times here. Styles or techniques comes second when you want to fight pro. (ring) The average martial artist is not conditionned enough for these kinds of competitions.You need to be tough and strong to make it and ,train like boxers do before an important match. I would not like to fight a boxer during his training camp! Maybe during his six month of drinking beer and putting on weight between fights! 
He still would use the same moves…but, the quality would not be there so…I believe that MMA is good for the young and strong and I wonder how a 50 years old like me would do in these events,even with good training.I prefer to do something I will still be able to do in my sixties and why not in my seventies?..And I will get even better at it! maybe not for the ring but ,for myself.
Coming back to the top; I think a tma could very well be successfull in mma with the proper training and conditionning.What is the difference between a boxer and a kung fu stylist?..Must be the conditionning. Look at that Igor something!..He throws big looping punches all the times but sprawlls well! Is that what is needed to make it in mma? Now picture a well trained tma guy with a full repertoire of moves,with good take down defenses and a killer instinct!..You may see that pretty soon!..And,for the big mystery!.. Maybe a kung fu guy will at last be tough enough to wistand the full insertion of a thumb in an eye socket without any pain or reactions,like any mma guy can do!..It will just makes him a little grumpy,eh?..
2 Points for Jong
The conditioning you get from competetive training gives you better cardio, better flexibility, more strength and endurance. These are also known as “health benefits” and should be a part of everyone’s program as long as they train, IMO. We all want to be old guys in shape, no? Add that to the meditational benefits in CMA and you get a good recipe
I don’t feel that you need to be competitive for your whole career. It is important at some point in your training (IMO, the earlier the better) Competitive training builds ideas about timing, footwork, combos, and adapting technique that you just can’t get anywhere else. Once you get those “in your body” though, they are always there, like riding a bike.
It was hard to learn to ride a bike when you were a kid. Now, you can do it, even though you may not have ridden one in years. Point is, at some time, you had to learn to ride that bike.
Dragon
I thank you for you explainations but…I already do cardio work. I lift weights.I teach and I train hard and ask my students to go hard on me.I even ride a bike from times to times! ;)I’m not a weakling.I weight 220 and I don’t even drink beer!.. I do all I can within reason to be in good shape (for my age !). I also know that I can use my Wing Chun skills for defense because, I did before. And ,I’m getting better with time!
But, If I was a little bit younger and I was interrested in fighting in MMA events, I think I would have to train a lot more! Like a pro fighter, I would train all day long for maybe 6/8 weeks to be ready for anything. I think all the hot guys in pride and UFC are doing just that.This is not a kind of physical conditionning someone can have all year long. You have to give the body a rest otherwise it will fall apart.
As for the meditationnal benefits you, mma guys kindly concede to kung fu, you should know that all of us are not hippys anymore. I know for myself that I can punch a hole in anybody’s face!..I train hard at this! :mad:
Old Jong, we were chatting about the same sentiments you expressed above.
For years I’ve been likening MAs training and the goals of one’s training to the ownership of an automobile. Pro fighters drive formula 1 and Indy cars. Very high speed and power, but also very high maintenance. Who, other than a couple hundred or so drivers on the planet, could operate one of those machines in rush-hour traffic though?
Anyway…
Ok Shooter,
Can you tell me how you’d deal with a wrestlers double leg conceptualy as well as techniques then?
this is such a hot topic! 
Ryu
Arch,
Well chances are I’d be able to sprawl out when I saw that split second change of levels. I train this way and have had many a wrestler shoot in on me so from experience I know that… uh
:eek: oh, nevermind.
(sorry guys, just had too. The MMA people have a very real point. I’m not taking their side because I’m “one of them” or anything, it’s just a very logical argument. Other posters have good points too, and I’ll never say fighting in tournaments is the only way to be realistic… but you DO have to train like those tournament people do…)
Ryu
Interresting analogy Shooter.
I would not put down the amount of work and dedication these guys put to be able to compete at hight level could it be car racing or fighting. I’m just wondering about those who simply talk endlessly about what others have done like they could themselves!..
I have a life!..
Yes Ryu…
I’m sure you do!..You sure talk like it!
BTW who are you and where are you living?..Just curious about our most “gentle” tr…(should I say that word?) Nahhhhhh! to much a nice guy! 
My real name is Arnold… Benedict.. uh I mean “Bernie” Arnold.
Ryu
Old Jong, I understand what you’re saying and sympathize with your frustration.
Archangel, I still can’t answer that with any specifics.
It depends on the angle of the shot, what side I have forward or if I’m caught square, how fast the shot is, the opponent’s rhythm and my own, my position, the nature of the situation in terms of sportive format or a real assault/attack, etc.
Believe it or not, Tai Chi does have a number of tactical responses to all kinds of takedowns and throws.
Yes, Ryu. You wouldn’t want to give away too much info.
UHMMM!
Why is it that I smell “rotten eggs” in your name ?
Thanks Shooter
But don’t worry for me,I’m not a newby in this forum and I’m not affected at all. Believe me!
Shooter
“Believe it or not, Tai Chi does have a number of tactical responses to all kinds of takedowns and throws.”
Shooter this is what I am looking for, people make claims but nobody has been able to point me to any websites or give any descriptions. It really does make me wonder…
It’s all a big conspiracy isn’t it
It’s funny how this topic went from the advantages and disadvantages of incorporating competetive training to CMA training regimes to MMA sucks, no, traditional sucks, no MMA sucks, no…
Kinda like that telephone game you played as a kid. Except you can read the original post(s) again if you want 
That telephone game you played as a kid sucked.
Quite frankly I’m pretty tired of the broken record arguments of CMA this and MMA that and Internal this and external that. Some people like the sport aspect that can go along with martial arts and wish to compete. To others it is a philosophy and a way to live their life. And to others it might just mean a legal way to get together and kick the krap out of other people. Whatever it is to you, it’s a lot better than smoking rock on the corner with “2 half tooth” Willie. However, I think it is wrong to try and force opinions on other people (I am not accusing anyone specifically of this). That’s what the 700 clubs and PC groups try and do already.