Dit Da Jow questions

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Traditional Chinese Medicine
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101

Jah light

Thanks guys for your input it shed some “light” on the topic. I do respect both Josh and Dale’s opinion and have purchased product from both of you and am satisfied with what I got from you both. Dale you are really good guy in my book. Josh you are 2 both very generous and knowledgable.

Some guy tried to tell me I messed up a Hung gar formula he made me by heating it up and using whiskey instead of Gin. I really felt the guy didn’t know what he was talking about although he has knowledge. The real issue i had is that the jow he advertised was pictured very dark color but when I made it it came out more brownish in color. One of Sifu Kong’s guys, I felt he gave a bad name to his Sifu for being arrogant.

Ya know when I really think of it there are always different opinions and thats what makes up Ying/Yang energy so there really is no one way. We can see how this is playing out in the political arena in the world today bigtime. One side pushes left and the right counters. end of story.

:cool:

102

I am always happy to assist others who are interested in acquiring and using Chinese herbs for their martial arts training.

Let me know how I can be of service to you and yours.

103

Greetings,

I have actually done the reverse. Steam the herbs, place in jar and then add the wine. It allows for greater penetration. The jow darkens much faster this way and is much stronger.

mickey

104

Mickey,

Basically the same concept. Using heat the break down the cell walls of the herbs to help facilitate more active components in your final solution.

I know a local Dit Da teacher who steams his herbs 12 times, and dries them before making his Dit Da Jow.

Many roads but we all get a similar destination. good liniments.

105

Greetings,

Yes, in a way it is similar. I dare say that it is safer and more effective.

The original poster was given a suggestion that reminded me of some mean spirited advice that went, “The best way to sharpen a knife is on your tongue.”

mickey

106

has anyone heard of “frying” the herbs first? Meaning, in a dry pan, rather than steamed or heat-soaked?
I would think that this would do the opposite of releasing the herb, but searing them, as you would first sear meat before braising, sealing in the properties.

White Tiger-I know of one herbalist in Chinatown that uses Johnny Walker black for his jow.
I have this image of a Monk in the Siu-Lum Temple..
“Oh no, we are low on Dit Da Jow! Kwai-Chang! Get on your horse and ride to Scotland!!”

Along the same line,one of my old Sifus has always insisted on Tanguery-which I think is not necessary as it is being applied topically and not ingested. Any store-bought gin/vodka/spirits of 60 proof+ would suffice.
You could use Fred’s Gin and save the money.
I went the traditional way and bought Sam Jing Jow (Triple distilled liquor) which worked fine. I will however use gin next time, as the juniper berries have a soothing effect on the skin, and it’s more aromatic. Also easier to get. Bottles and Cases is around the block, Mark’s Liquor store on Mott Street is an hour away.
Oh, and I have a rewards card!

107

There are people who dry fry their herbs to help facilitate breakdown of the cell walls. You need to get the active components out of the herbs and into solution. Hence the use of heat to help.

Whether you steam, dry fry, or cook your herbs on low heat, you are affecting the solution to be as strong as possible.

Be careful of using high proof alcohol that are low on water content. 100% is not what you want to use. I would not go over 60% alcohol.

Anyone who tells you that you have to use grain alcohol is ignorant and needs to be corrected that some herbs are NOT alcohol soluble. Hence you have to have water in the medium as well for many herbs that are water soluble.

Cheap liquor has the best mixes. 40% to 60% is good, but watch out, you need to have a strong water content as well.

108

Greetings,

I have also seen the dry frying method. Works good. You really need a pan that the herbs cannot stick to. And you have to keep the herbs moving.

Alcohols I have used:

Johnny Walker Black

Stolichnaya

Kao Liang Jiew

Another brother of mine used Jack Daniels.

mickey

109

I have a bottle of Ditdajow and it is over 10 years old!
Just getting over ‘frozen shoulder’ right side and I used it, with some relief.
The aroma is stil there, it appears to be working!

QUESTION:
With no expiry date, is there a specific time that Ditjajow breaks down? Or, is there a rule of thumb on when it cannot be used?
p.s. the aroma is there, the analgesic feeling is apparent! I did shake up bottle and colour is still retained (more or less).

thanks

110

Depends on who made the liniment and what was the base.

FYI, do not EVER for any reason use Isopropyl Alcohol for any reason to make a liniment, no matter who tells you. It will break down into acetone overtime as well as be broken down into acetone by your lived when used. Avoid it like Zombie hookups.

Checking for jow to make sure its okay is a simple process. Is there anything floating on the top of the liquid that reminds you of a Kombucha fungus, discard it and do not use it.

If it smells like vinegar( and you did not use vinegar as a base), do not use it.

As long as it smells like the formula should smell, and there is no fungus, or mold on top of the liquid usually you are not going to to have an issue.

If you ever use a topical and it induces a rash or allergic reaction, discard it. Do not risk hurting yourself or others.

111

[QUOTE=TenTigers;1140314]has anyone heard of “frying” the herbs first? Meaning, in a dry pan, rather than steamed or heat-soaked?
I would think that this would do the opposite of releasing the herb, but searing them, as you would first sear meat before braising, sealing in the properties.

White Tiger-I know of one herbalist in Chinatown that uses Johnny Walker black for his jow.
I have this image of a Monk in the Siu-Lum Temple..
“Oh no, we are low on Dit Da Jow! Kwai-Chang! Get on your horse and ride to Scotland!!”

Along the same line,one of my old Sifus has always insisted on Tanguery-which I think is not necessary as it is being applied topically and not ingested. Any store-bought gin/vodka/spirits of 60 proof+ would suffice.
You could use Fred’s Gin and save the money.
I went the traditional way and bought Sam Jing Jow (Triple distilled liquor) which worked fine. I will however use gin next time, as the juniper berries have a soothing effect on the skin, and it’s more aromatic. Also easier to get. Bottles and Cases is around the block, Mark’s Liquor store on Mott Street is an hour away.
Oh, and I have a rewards card![/QUOTE]

The Chow Gar SPM recipe dit da jow I use (and make) - the herbs are fried in a little oil then added to the jar and then alcohol of your choice is used. Brandy seems to work best in.

112

Dit da oil

When we make Chow’s family recipe dit da yau we have to simmer the oil before adding the herbs.

113

Boiling Dit Da Jow?

I’ll be the first to admit I am not a veteran jow maker.

I read recently that it’s suggested to boil the crushed herbs and vodka(after soaking).

I’ve never heard or read about this before. Has anyone heard of this?

Moreso, is this a common suggestion and is it a good idea?

114

Hello from Boston.

I had a customer recently mail me Brian Grays formula and directions for making Dit Da Jow, and its said IN PRINT, to boil vodka and add the herbs and simmer it for hours.

Are you kidding me? Seems our supposed GM of IP has no idea what he is talking about, but then again that is nothing new.

You boil vodka, and when it vaporizes you can ignite it and cause some serious damage, maybe even an explosion.

NEVER boil alcohol that has a high percentage of alcohol. NEVER NEVER NEVER.

You also do not want to boil your herbs in your solvent of choice for hours, as that would blow off most of the aromatics, and other compounds that are in the herbs. Anyone who tells you to do this has no idea what they are talking about and should be disregarded as uneducated and misinformed.

Certain herbs cannot be cooked for very long, or they lose their chemical potency.

What you can do is heat the vodka in the bottles it came in, with the caps removed, and then add the very hot solvent into your storage container with the herbs, let it cool, and then seal it for duration of the sitting period you use. Do NOT seal any bottles that are hot or warm as they could break. I have broken a few carboys over the years.

This is called Hot Soaking, and creates a stronger medicine IMHO compared to a cold soak.

Grinding your herbs also helps it to “cook” faster and draw out more of the active components in the herbs into the solution.

Unlike the old wives tales about needing to leave formulas for over a year, you can use your formula in 6-8 weeks. Just decant what you want into a smaller bottle and reseal the larger container.

Let me know how I can be of service to you, and anyone else wanting to make strong formulas.

115

When I’d make mine, I’d buy the local store brand vodka and gin that came in plastic bottles along with plastic bottles of rubbing alcohol, and put them into glass jars that had the herbs in them. For that type of set up, how would you recommend heating the alcohol, and how hot can you make it with out breaking the glass jar from the heat, Dale? Or is there a better way that’s not too expensive to make hot soak jow?

116

Faruq,

rubbing alcohol?

Rubbing alcohol breaks down into acetone by the liver.

Using jow made with rubbing alcohol is going to harm you.

NEVER use rubbing alcohol in making Dit Da Jow.

Who told you to use rubbing alcohol? They are misinformed.

You can boil water, remove it from the heat and let the plastic bottles of vodka sit in the hot water for 5- 10 minutes. Take them out, and be careful not to burn yourself.

You add this hot vodka to your herbs, and let the container sit for a few hours or until cool. Then seal it up and your are all set.

117

Wow, thanks Dale! I thought the rubbing alcohol was okay since it’s used for massages and stuff, and I’m glad I mentioned it now because now I know it’s dangerous. Is it dangerous when used for massage or cooling someone off as well, or is it just dangerous when used in a jow?

And thanks for the other instructions as well!

118

Faruq,

IF you use jow daily then you will be exposing yourself to isopropyl alcohol that is way above the normal limits.

I have NEVER seen it used for massage lately.

We are taught when needling in acupuncture to use it sparingly.

It is not good for daily exposure at the levels used in Iron Palm training or injuries.

119

Thanks again, Dale.

120

My pleasure, brother.

Let me know how I can be of service to you and your clan.