Man I wish I could find a cheaper source for Rotgut vodka when I make Jow. I make it 5 gallons at a time and its over ten bucks for 1.75 liters. Thats 100 bucks for the booze alone.
Anyone out there know a source for cheaper booze, whiskey or vodka?
Thanks,
Dale Dugas
I buy 1.75L bottles in 6-bottle cases, and the price before tax comes to about $11.99 / bottle if I buy it in that volume. I spent several hours searching rabidly for cheaper prices and only found a 6-bottle case at a 10% discount from that but a liquer license was required, which, of course isnt cheap.
IMO, your best bet is to purchase from liquer “clubs” via internet so you dont have to pay taxes…Unfortunately Im not so lucky to be able to do so here in AL…
BTW, while looking I happened across a chemical company that was selling 55 gallon drums of grain alcohol for like $50!! Whoa score! As my hopes piqued it ended up being denatured…A good thing I didnt make jow from that! =) Anyway, all the cheap prices Ive found is all highly toxic denatured stuff…
I know this wasnt much help, but hopefully it was worth something to ya. 
Dale, if you’re making it yourself the end cost per oz. is still cheap even at retail prices. I’m assuming though that you’re not paying over $100 for the herbs.
I just made 1.75 gallons at an end cost of .73 an oz.
you could build your own still, i suppose. : )
AFAIK, the state laws are only against the selling of privately made liquor. In NC you can make up to 200 gallons a year for personal consumption.
You can make up to 200 gallons a year of wine and beer. The alcohol is made by the action of the yeast in consuming sugars. The limit on yeast alcohol production is about 18%, and then the yeast dies off from its own alcohol byproduct.
Distillation (hard liquors) is illegal in all 50 states. It’s a different process, and it can be dangerous too.
Having said that, here is an interesting site: distillation – for informational purposes only.
well, it’s not illegal…you just have to pay the tax.
luckily I know how the local ABC officer feels about the issue.
Thanks Guys, The ATF people here in Mass dont take lightly to you having a still. I dont want to lose the car and go to jail so Ill stick to cheap vodka.
Just wanted to know what other people had found for cheap booze.
Thanks,
Dale
P.D. Denatured would have made some nice poison jow to give to your enemies…
Hi Dale Dugas :- I am interested in your recipe for Jow. Could you post it up Ta very much
Mufty 
Mufty,
Sorry not going to be posting any formulae here for free. You can contact me off forum anytime at Jooklumpai@hotmail.com or Daledugas192@comcast.net to purchase both the herbs and the written formula or just the written formula.
Dale
General jow question: Is vodka (80 proof) the preferred alcohol or will any clear liquer work? Does the alcohol content, higer or lower, make a difference? I’ve always been told to soak the herbs in vodka, but I was curious if a higher alcohol content would make the jow stronger or more effective.
the higher the proof means the less water and more alcohol you have. You want to have a balance of water, the universal solvent and alcohol which is another solvent. I have had the best luck with 80 proof or 40%.
Dale,
I was told by Hakka herbalists in Hong Kong to use gin to make jow and
most folks over there use gin and occasionally whiskey.
Gin was recommened over vodka because its made with juniper berries,
and it was more reactive than vodka.
Bong
JP, the mix i just made called for whisky.
mine just came of age though i’m letting is soak till i actually run out of what I’ve had.
if you ever get over here, i’ll give you some. btw, Brewgrassfestival.com is Oct 22
yeah I have heard of gin(used it once) and whiskey. Seems to be the cheapest booze is vodka. Gin and whiskey are more money.
jow helps me train more.
I can think of better uses for whiskey, but not vodka.
Brewgrass festival? I already have plans for October 22. It’s been a busy, busy year for me so far. Do you guys still spar on Saturdays (or was that Wednesdays)?
rice wine can also be used but be careful as some contain sugars that tend to make the jow have a slightly sticky residue. So always chose pure grain
Ive done quite a bit of research on the topic of solvent percentages, what proof of alcohol to use. It has been my conclusion that as long as you stay around the 30-60% region, that you your jow will age quite well. A few of the reasons are below…this get a bit complicated:
Alcohol is composed of 1 hydroxy group bonded to a hydrocarbon. Hydroxy is the OH molecule that composes 2/3 of a water molecule. When ethanoal and water are mixed, because its polar, its “visible” to the OH group in water molecules. This evidence suggests that a 50% mix of each is probably best.
However, while ethanol is an excellent solvent, it has a much lower dielectric constant than water (24.5 vs ~79), which means it has a significantly lower ability to separate ions from compounds than water does, and water is thus known as a universal solvent because of its ability to dissolve more substances than any other liquid. This evidence suggests that the mixture should be significantly more than 50% water and less than 50% alcohol.
Furthermore, water has a higher density than alcohol (1 g/cm vs about 0.75). When looking at volumes of water vs alcohol, there are more water molecules in a given volume than alcohol molecules. In equal concentrations, water molecules interact with the alcohol molecules and create hydrogen bonds between the two. When herbs are present, both will dissove the herbs and sometimes you may see this as various layers of material in your bottle of jow. When the water becomes saturated with other molecules, they will become mroe dense than the alcohol or water and layers on the bottom. For this reason, it makes sense to have more water once again, but this effect is negated by the fact that water molecules are more dense per unit volume than alcohol. Water can also hold more energy at the same temperature, which may help with lattice dissolving in the aging process.
Lastly, various herbs had varying molecules that it interacts with. For example, hong hua (safflower) has a variety of acids, a couple oils, and some sugars such as glucose. While this single example doesnt create a definitive answer, high school level chemistry labs easily show that many acids and sugars are completely dissoved in water, and only partially dissolved in alcohol, while many oils that herbs release are non-polar and will not dissolve into water or alcohol, but are only released into the jow because of the dissolution of other parts of the herb (also the acids may propagate as an aid in the aging process).
Overall, in my opinion, having a higher percentage of water than alcohol is desireable. When I make my jow, I usually top off each jug with water before remixing it and sealing it. My percentage is approximately 39% alcohol. Water is responsible for MUCH of the organic dissolving that takes place in nature, and alcohol to a lesser degree, as well as being a slight detergent. The main reason to have alcohol is to aid in dissolving some of the things that water many not be able to. The best approach would be to add a 3rd solvent that deals with more non-polar elements like some of the oil based jows available. I havent done this but as a part of my research am working towards determining if there is an increase in efectiveness with more than 2 solvents. My guess is it will be negligible, but we shall see. =)
Hope this was useful to some =)
If you let your jow sit for a year, does it make any difference whether you grind the herbs or simply brek them into pieces? A year is a pretty long time to steep. I would think the herbs would completely yield their properties by then, yes? No?
Also, some people steam their herbs first, others have even fried them. (I have never fried them as I would think that they would carmelize the sugars and cause other changes in their molecular structure, but I will savve that for the chem majors to answer.
You would think, eh? Unfortunately not. My best bottle of jow is over 5 years old. The reactions inside there can take place very slowly. Also there are tertiary reactions that take place.
Personally, I dont like grinding up my herbs too fine. I prefer them to be broken up into small pieces or very coarsely ground. I use a mortar and pestel to obtain the exact size I want.
Im sure others will have different views than this, and some will have the same. Do yoru reasearch, build a knowledge base and determine in your head what you think is right…
Some herbs should NOT be steamed, as they will break down due to the heat and some oils that are released will break down with exposure to light and become inert. Some very strange things are done to other herbs to prepare them. Its really something that needs to be addressed on an herb-by-herb basis. =)
Plum Dragon,
May I ask who told you to put water in your Jao?
My Sifu, Chan Tai-San was a very respected Doctor and was one of the Directors of the Chinese Herbal Medicine Association in NY (Chinatown obviously).
I have a dozen formulas for Jao, 2 for cut powder, a few for differend plasters, herbal tonics, Internal injuries, etc. WATER was never used in any formula, and I was told to never let any water in the Jars when we made Jao.
From what I read in your posts, it seems like you are going along based on ‘feel’ and ‘trial and error’ I’m not Chinese doctor, but I don’t think you’ll find one who agrees that water goes in the mix.
Just trying to help.
Incidently, I do have one batch that was made in march, 1992! 2.5 gallons of Iron Palm Jao. I’ll be pouring into small bottles and using it this week!
PS any Chinese doctor will tell you NOT to crush or grind the herbs for Dit Da Jao as well. DON’T DO IT EVERYONE!!!
say what?
LPS -
Honorable Sir, I must take you to task regarding the crushing of herbs - -it is common practice to break large pieces and pulverize the resins and stones. Crusing, breaking, tearing, smashing (all the kungfu terms we love so much! ) give most herbs greater contact area with the solvent, in this case an alcohol/water solution. Greater surface area translates in 6 months to a stronger jow. Furthermore, in the case of the resins, some won’t even dissolve very well in alcohol so pulverizing gives a ‘head start’ on the dissolving process.
Regarding the alcohol/water dilemma:
This comes up from time to time on this forum. I’d say the general consensus is simply too much concentration of either is not good. While PlumFlower’s practice of topping of with H20 may seem unconventional, he’s still got a mixture about the same as Vodka (80 proof), the cheapest, most commonly used solvent outside of China. My Sifu told me to use Xiaoshing wine for the best mix. Indeed, I recognized the ‘soysauce’ aroma of Xiaoshing in many “pharmacy” jows. Xiaoshing is one of my favorite of the potent potables, and I know firsthand it has waaaaay less alcohol than vodka. So far, PlumFlower has the most convincing arguement.
When dealing with TCM, dogma only gets you halfway to the destination. The rest truly comes from experience, experimentation and practice. Just because one sifu breaks his herbs first, while another leaves them whole does not make either right or wrong. The first thing they told us in acupuncture school is: No two practicioners will give the same diagnosis, essentially eluding to the high variablility in technique in an ancient form of folk medicine.
peace,
herb ox (gotta get back to studying - big herb test tomorrow!)