Direct transmission.
Hendrick,
I ask you some questions and I look forward to your direct reply:
1/. Do you train in White Crane?
2/. Who have you trained with directly in White Crane?
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1138785]Direct transmission.
Hendrick,
I ask you some questions and I look forward to your direct reply:
1/. Do you train in White Crane?
2/. Who have you trained with directly in White Crane?[/QUOTE]
Could you please answer my technical questions above for discussion ? or you are not interested in friendly equal position technical discussion? your choice.
Please re-read my post. it clearly stated direct transmission!
This is from Xie Zhong Xiang to his student Huang Xin Xian to Xie Mu Tai and then onwards to my co-founder Kein-Chong Lau. It is simply put the views passed down via their direct learning experiences of that line.
Xie Zhong Xiang one of the progenitors of White Crane Gongfu was slowly softening the cranes form into a higher level. This was not to say that the crane was hard in the beginning, it was soft, but Xie Zhong Xiang being a Taoist wanted it even more softer. Muscular strength disappears with age or reduces greatly with age. Whereas Jin or internal power increase with age. Look at the available footage (Youtube etc) of so many White Crane folks teaching the art, some are so hard that it looks mechanical. The originator of White Crane Gongfu in all its forms Fang Qiniang was a lady, so common sense tells us that if a grand lady such as this were to be involved in combat, how is it possible to use muscular strength to counter the brute strength of a full grown male. Very unlikely, so there must be something more to the art, other than angles, alignment and speed, all of which deteriorates through time.
Within the personal White Crane Manual/Text which was passed to Grandmaster Huang Xin Xian through Xie Zhong Xian, the first page masterfully written in Hanzi contained the following precept:
“Soong Soong Soon, Xin Xin Xin”
Loosely translated as:
“Relax Relax Relax, Mind Mind Mind”
This refers to (deep) Mind rather than the ‘superficial’ Mind. Deep Mind can be understood as the true self, a state where there is internal calm not generated by everyday thought or the superficial Mind. It is this Deep Mind that one should arrive at before one does the Form and Drills.
Soong is equally hard to comprehend, Relax and yet connected, loose and yet agile and light. These were the original concepts, the Deep Mind that the founder and progenitors held true as the essence of White Crane Gongfu.
Sadly, rather than focus upon the development of Soong and Xin, far too many Crane Stylists have taken the road of that which is hard, external in both expression and form. Why? Perhaps to make the art more appealing, dynamic in its view to others, perhaps even more marketable as few want to spend the time to truly come to grips with the internal essence of the art.
It is this internal essence which should be sought out and cultivated as it is the way forward … A small part is due to the techniques which include the angles and kinetics and such. The larger part is due to the (deep) Mind.
One of the most influential of all of the past masters of White Crane Gongfu, Grandmaster Huang Xin Xian is reported to have often said that Progress is likened to grilling a sweet potato, fast would surely burn the out and make it black, but the inside is still hard and raw! A slow fire over a long period of time would be perfect, the outside is NOT burned and the inside soft and well cooked. Many, many White Crane practitioners can do the form, but, when it comes to internal generation of power and softness - some leave alot to be desired.
Using the Crane as the boxing form, imitating its external appearance and appropriating its inner essence, merging form with spirit.
You may also like to visit my web site: http://www.whitecranegonfu.com
It may answer some of your questions.
Now having gone someway to answering your question please answer mine:
[B][I]Hendrik,
1/. Do you train in White Crane?
2/. Who have you trained with directly in White Crane?
3/. What are your experiences/sources of White Crane?[/I][/B]
[B]Hendrik,
Could you please answer my questions above for discussion? Or you are not interested in friendly equal position discussion? Your choice![/B]
I train in ancient 1850 version of yik kam wing Chun directly via cho family which is related and has elements of ancient white crane. Classical writing is my source .
Do you have evident to show Gm Xie ru ru is a daoist?
Yesterday 08:07 PM
Hendrik
I train in ancient 1850 version of yik kam wing Chun directly via cho family which is related and has elements of ancient white crane. Classical writing is my source .
Do you have evident to show Gm Xie ru ru is a daoist?
Hmmm. So you don’t train in White Crane Gongfu at all!
Hendrik,
1/. Do you train in White Crane? (Hendrik says NO)
2/. Who have you trained with directly in White Crane? (Hendrik says NO)
3/. What are your experiences/sources of White Crane? (Hendrik says some Wing Chun … not White Crane … with “some” elements & “classical writings”
Yet you claim you know all about the art because there are “some elements” you say, within “your” Wing Chun!
Sorry mate that doesn’t cut it! I don’t at all mean to be disrespectful to you or anyone else but you came on here claiming that your very knowledgeable about White Crane when in fact by your own admission you have never trained in White Crane but have read about it? Can you see what I’m getting at?
Reading about it (“Classical Writings”) and doing it are two entirely different things all together!
I have read a great deal about Wing Chun but I don’t claim to know Wing Chun! That would be plainly wrong, terribly presumptuous and not at all without a smattering of ego!
To again answer your question … Direct transmission!
Something for you to note:
http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.YikKam
Where is your evidence that Grandmaster Xie Zhong Xiang was not a Taoist?
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1139016]Hmmm. So you don’t train in White Crane Gongfu at all!
Yet you claim you know all about the art because there are “some elements” you say, within “your” Wing Chun!
Sorry mate that doesn’t cut it!
Reading about it (“Classical Writings”) and doing it are two entirely different things all together!
I have read a great deal about Wing Chun but I don’t claim to know Wing Chun! That would be plainly wrong, terribly presumptuous and not at all without a smattering of ego!
To again answer your question … Direct transmission!
Where is your evidence that Grandmaster Xie Zhong Xiang was not a Taoist?[/QUOTE]
Fang Chi Niang’s White Crane is my art’s ancestor. I know my ancestor art which is within my art. what is the issue? what is not direct transmission?
Do you have Direct transmission from Fang Chi Niang? or your art is no different from mine which is an evolution from Fang Chi Niang?
As for Xie Zhong Xiang, There is no indication of Xie is a Daoist. In fact, Xie’s Crane is an evolution created by his teacher.
“”“”—“”“”
“”
1852—1930
Today 12:56 PM
Hendrik
Fang Chi Niang’s White Crane is my art’s ancestor. I know my ancestor art which is within my art. what is the issue? what is not direct transmission?
Do you have Direct transmission from Fang Chi Niang? or your art is no different from mine which is an evolution from Fang Chi Niang?
Your art is Wing Chun … NOT White Crane and yes, there is a difference … a very big one!
Yes and Yes! Master Lee Kong is my Master/Advisor! I am also aligned via Kein-Chong Lau!
As for Xie Zhong Xiang, There is no indication of Xie is a Daoist. In fact, Xie’s Crane is an evolution created by his teacher.
“”“” —“ ”“”
“”
1852—1930
http://www.csqlib.com/News_View.asp?NewsID=128
Okay so you posted some writing and a link about Minghequan … What does that actually prove???
Where is your proof that Xie Zhong Xiang is NOT a Taoist??? My proof comes from Oral Transmission from Xie Zhong Xiang to his student Huang Xin Xian to Xie Mu Tai and then onwards to my co-founder Kein-Chong Lau. (not to mention written transmission in the form of the personal White Crane Manual/Text which was passed to Grandmaster Huang Xin Xian through Xie Zhong Xian)
Lets be honest here Hendrik, neither of us actually trained with Fang Qiniang or Xie Zhong Xiang!!! And neither of us is the direct authority on White Crane (although some are closer than others).
Again, have you trained in actual White Crane Gongfu and not some off-shoot???
Call in whooping crane, call it karate, call it wing Chun what is the different? Read Sifu Lee kong s. Article on white crane lineages, wing Chun is listed there. so may be you want to share with us here, which lineage of white crane you comes from?
Fang chi niang’s white crane has uniqueness which the off spring inherit. In term of frame , momentum ..ect. Which could be verify from white crane classical writing. Those are real technical stuffs to be discussed and set as reference. So, to discuss white crane one needs to start there instead of jump to daoist, soft…better… etc. Which is a personal opinion. One needs to know why and how the white crane of Fang chi niang function and practice and then the evolution.
As stated, my lineage is known, no need to re-hash here.
Okay you say you want to share? … THEN SHARE!
Fang chi niang’s white crane has uniqueness which the off spring inherit. In term of frame , momentum ..ect. Which could be verify from white crane classical writing. Those are real technical stuffs to be discussed and set as reference.
Tell me ALL you can about the original writings and art as you believe was taught by Founder Fang Qiniang … Everything!
I await your next post on this very matter seeing as you are so kind to share!
Tell me everything: How did Fang Qiniang teach?, What did she teach? What are the principles, concepts, techniques and forms she originally taught?
Share everything you know!
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1139031]As stated, my lineage is known, no need to re-hash here.
Okay you say you want to share? … THEN SHARE!
Tell me ALL you can about the original writings and art as you believe was taught by Founder Fang Qiniang … Everything!
I await your next post on this very matter seeing as you are so kind to share!
Tell me everything: How did Fang Qiniang teach?, What did she teach? What are the principles, concepts, techniques and forms she originally taught?
Share everything you know![/QUOTE]
You have not adress your lineage.
Your are the resercher so share with us .
Hendrik,
You have not adress (sic) your lineage.
You want to know about poor little old me? Sure, no problems please visit this link:
http://www.whitecranegongfu.com/ron%20goninan%20~%20master%20degree%20~%20china.htm
Hey! Send me your direct email and I’ll even send you copies of my certificates etc.
Today 05:07 PM
Hendrik
Your are the resercher (sic) so share with us .
You are both wrong and right, no I’m not a “resercher” (I gather English is not your first language?) … I am however a researcher, seeker, constant learner!
I have shared more than enough here. You meanwhile have basically said nothing. You want more about me, my approach? Well buddy, go to my web site, there’s a fair bit of information on it that will give you more than a basic overview of what I and my association is all about:
http://www.whitecranegongfu.com
Lets cut the Bulldust here and cut to the chase! … You come on here claiming to know just about all there is about White Crane because you do Wing Chun (Go Figure!) and you have read so-called “Classic Writings” (yes your “Google-Fu” is strong!) most likely by trawling through a number of Chinese Martial Arts web sites most probably using Google Translate to help you read them … You claim you have knowledge to share but when asked to share that knowledge, guess what! … You clam up and say nothing! … is that because perhaps, just maybe … you have nothing to say? Maybe, just maybe your a !
I’m not prepared to waste my time with one such as you .. Someone who has a lot to say about nothing!
If your not prepared to share then as us Aussies say … bugger off!
When two professional engineers meet in a conference, they introduce each others and then share their profesion knowledge. That is how sharing happen in professional world in an effective, professional, and natural way.
I have shared the information 1, Fang chi niang s art has content of frame, menentum handling. 2, Xie is not the creator is a student of the whooping crane founder. Whooping crane is an evolution of fang chi niang white crane with other arts. 3, fang chi niang s teaching is trackable via classical writing.
So, your idea of hard white crane , made soft, daoist, … You might want to Share where are these ideas of yours come from and base on the above knowing facts of white crane of fang chi niang, could that be possible ?
from the above chinese article,
There is no indication of Xie is a daoist. Also the person who create whooping crane style is Xie teacher. It also doesn’t say Xie further evolve whooping crane with daoist.
You want a friendly technical discussion or a pi$$$ing off contest?
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1139043]Hendrik,
You want to know about poor little old me? Sure, no problems please visit this link:
http://www.whitecranegongfu.com/ron%20goninan%20~%20master%20degree%20~%20china.htm
Hey! Send me your direct email and I’ll even send you copies of my certificates etc.
You are both wrong and right, no I’m not a “resercher” (I gather English is not your first language?) … I am however a researcher, seeker, constant learner!
I have shared more than enough here. You meanwhile have basically said nothing. You want more about me, my approach? Well buddy, go to my web site, there’s a fair bit of information on it that will give you more than a basic overview of what I and my association is all about:
http://www.whitecranegongfu.com
Lets cut the Bulldust here and cut to the chase! … You come on here claiming to know just about all there is about White Crane because you do Wing Chun (Go Figure!) and you have read so-called “Classic Writings” (yes your “Google-Fu” is strong!) most likely by trawling through a number of Chinese Martial Arts web sites most probably using Google Translate to help you read them … You claim you have knowledge to share but when asked to share that knowledge, guess what! … You clam up and say nothing! … is that because perhaps, just maybe … you have nothing to say? Maybe, just maybe your a !
I’m not prepared to waste my time with one such as you .. Someone who has a lot to say about nothing!
If your not prepared to share then as us Aussies say … bugger off![/QUOTE]