[QUOTE=JamesC;1085240]That’s kinda my thoughts as well.
Why not just move your head?[/QUOTE]
As I said.
[QUOTE=couch;1085147]I never said that constant evasion is the key. It was offered as another option.[/quote]
Huh? You said “Pak Sau is good. Not being there is much better.”
Hardly sounds like offering it as another option, its an assertion that its a superior method.
To be honest, I love boxing and I love slipping and weaving, but against a jab I think its completely pointless to give up your position like that unless you’re trying to play a mental game of some sort, or you haven’t gotten used to their timing yet.
[quote=]It’s bloody hard to hit someone who keeps moving and running away until they get a chance to attack. I have sparred experienced Tae Kwon Do folk and it’s hard to get anything off while they move around.[/quote]
I don’t know what to tell you here, to be honest. I’ve never had an issue hitting anyone with a jab, least of all “Experienced Tae Kwon Do” folk. Maybe work on your timing and targeting, spar a lot more, too.
[quote=]1. A jab doesn’t need to use the torso, but it needs footwork (stepping) to work.[/quote]
No, it doesn’t. A perfect, technically correct jab (in some trainers eyes) is one that utilizes hip and shoulder rotation, the forward momentum with the step, the corkscrew motion with the fist, etc.
But boxing isn’t about perfect technique. And the jab can be used in other effective ways, without the step, hip and shoulder rotation, even without the corkscrew motion. These things can remove power and speed, but if you know your opponent is going to move their entire body each time you jab, you dictate the pace of the fight and make them waste energy by putting them on the defensive. Throw in a hard shot every now and then to keep them guessing, and you’re golden.
- True. A jab can flick, feel, or hurt.
[quote=]3. Not true. Talk to my boxing coach who trains the WBC champion here in Halifax. Keep the head moving = not an easy target.[/quote]
You’re twisting my words. I never said it was an easy target, I’m saying its easier to hit a moving target than it is to time an opponent’s attack. Keep in mind that tracking a target is something inherent in our species, its helped us survive for thousands of years. Its a basic instinct thats honed in many ways throughout our lives, not just fighting. Now on the other hand, timing the perfect evasive movement, isn’t. Thats not to say we’re not built in with survival skills and that timing isn’t one of them, but how that relates to the slip and weave, or evasive footwork, are more complex skills than the basic tracking we hone on a daily basis.
That being said, I have a couple of important questions regarding your claim.
1.) Which WBC Champion? There are many across many weight classes, and I don’t know of any current ones that are from Halifax except Tyson Cave, who is 13-1 and recently won a vacant WBC Continental Americas title recently, which is hardly a significant achievement at all so… 
2.) Who is your boxing coach? Some boxers emphasize defense, but in general, its not like defensive boxers rule the divisions, thats not the case. Some boxers believe counter punching is the best, some believe pressure fighting is the best, some believe effective defense is the best, some believe being well rounded is the best, etc. etc. etc. - Your WBC Champion training coach might be slanted toward defense, but that doesn’t mean hes right or even that the boxing world is on his side about it. I guess your boxing coach who trains a nobody titlist can talk to my boxing coach who’s significantly trained an actual WBC title holder, an olympic silver medalist, and other pros. 
[quote=]4. I disagree, but that’s okay. Takes more energy to punch than cover up. This is my experience. I can run all day (like the TKD folk) but I can’t punch all day. Not even jab all day.[/quote]
Its a simple mathematical equation. How much energy does it take for the human body to move your fist to someones face in a quick motion, versus how much it takes to move the entire body in a quick motion.
If you’re just talking about slipping, well keep in mind there’s only one safe direction to slip. Not much in the way of variety to keep the opponent guessing.
[QUOTE=AdrianK;1085287]Huh? You said “Pak Sau is good. Not being there is much better.”
Hardly sounds like offering it as another option, its an assertion that its a superior method.
To be honest, I love boxing and I love slipping and weaving, but against a jab I think its completely pointless to give up your position like that unless you’re trying to play a mental game of some sort, or you haven’t gotten used to their timing yet.
I don’t know what to tell you here, to be honest. I’ve never had an issue hitting anyone with a jab, least of all “Experienced Tae Kwon Do” folk. Maybe work on your timing and targeting, spar a lot more, too.
No, it doesn’t. A perfect, technically correct jab (in some trainers eyes) is one that utilizes hip and shoulder rotation, the forward momentum with the step, the corkscrew motion with the fist, etc.
But boxing isn’t about perfect technique. And the jab can be used in other effective ways, without the step, hip and shoulder rotation, even without the corkscrew motion. These things can remove power and speed, but if you know your opponent is going to move their entire body each time you jab, you dictate the pace of the fight and make them waste energy by putting them on the defensive. Throw in a hard shot every now and then to keep them guessing, and you’re golden.
- True. A jab can flick, feel, or hurt.
You’re twisting my words. I never said it was an easy target, I’m saying its easier to hit a moving target than it is to time an opponent’s attack. Keep in mind that tracking a target is something inherent in our species, its helped us survive for thousands of years. Its a basic instinct thats honed in many ways throughout our lives, not just fighting. Now on the other hand, timing the perfect evasive movement, isn’t. Thats not to say we’re not built in with survival skills and that timing isn’t one of them, but how that relates to the slip and weave, or evasive footwork, are more complex skills than the basic tracking we hone on a daily basis.
That being said, I have a couple of important questions regarding your claim.
1.) Which WBC Champion? There are many across many weight classes, and I don’t know of any current ones that are from Halifax except Tyson Cave, who is 13-1 and recently won a vacant WBC Continental Americas title recently, which is hardly a significant achievement at all so…
2.) Who is your boxing coach? Some boxers emphasize defense, but in general, its not like defensive boxers rule the divisions, thats not the case. Some boxers believe counter punching is the best, some believe pressure fighting is the best, some believe effective defense is the best, some believe being well rounded is the best, etc. etc. etc. - Your WBC Champion training coach might be slanted toward defense, but that doesn’t mean hes right or even that the boxing world is on his side about it. I guess your boxing coach who trains a nobody titlist can talk to my boxing coach who’s significantly trained an actual WBC title holder, an olympic silver medalist, and other pros.
Its a simple mathematical equation. How much energy does it take for the human body to move your fist to someones face in a quick motion, versus how much it takes to move the entire body in a quick motion.
If you’re just talking about slipping, well keep in mind there’s only one safe direction to slip. Not much in the way of variety to keep the opponent guessing.[/QUOTE]
You’ve twisted my words and made personal attacks on my boxing coach.
We’re done.
[QUOTE=couch;1085301]You’ve twisted my words and made personal attacks on my boxing coach.
We’re done.[/QUOTE]
Twisted your words? Perhaps you’re simply not expressing yourself correctly. If I am twisting your words, I certainly don’t mean to.
As far as making personal attacks on your boxing coach, calm down sir. I was poking fun, hence the emoticon. I think its more than a little silly that you “name dropped” to provide substance to your statement, I didn’t say that your boxing coach doesn’t know what hes talking about, only that if you’re going to bring up accomplishments to provide substance to your point, there are people with better resumes who think differently. And hell, there are people with way better resumes than my trainer, who think differently too.
Boxing has a lot of debate and arguments. There’s no “true jab” or “true defense”, or whatnot, and you can’t name drop a trainer to prove your point. Not only is it unverifiable, second-hand information, but its just silly.
Once again, I’m not making a personal attack on your trainer, my words might’ve been a little harsh but if you’re going to claim WBC this and that, you should know what WBC titles are actually relevant and what are the equivalent of “Good job, maybe someday you’ll be the real champ”…
But sir you forget that contrary to boxing and other fighting arts…WC has only ONE TRUE method. This forum has been arguing who’s got that method for over a decade now.
That’s where the ego’s come from as well. For most, name dropping, lineage wars, and overly emphasized theory is where it’s at in the CMA world.
Thats why many have gravitated towards more functional fighting methods devoid of those things–too much B.S associated with it otherwise.
counter punch?