I know everyone is always worried and/or focused on either learning grappling or learning anti-grappling when doing wing chun. what would you say the simplest techniques are to be able to work against a good street boxer who keeps throwing fast jabs and pulling his hand back before it could be controlled?
[QUOTE=shaolin_allan;1084624] what would you say the simplest techniques are to be able to work against a good street boxer who keeps throwing fast jabs and pulling his hand back before it could be controlled?[/QUOTE]
Kick him, the leg is always longer than the arm. Let your opponent to run into your kick like in the following clip at 4.26.
Seems like the easiest way to discover this would be to first find a boxer.
I have actually sparred a bit with my cousin who just did some basic boxing at a gym and find that it can be tough to work against well placed fast jabs, thats why I was wondering. YouKnowWho which style is it you train again? you’ve told me before but I cant remember.
[QUOTE=shaolin_allan;1084630]YouKnowWho which style is it you train again? you’ve told me before but I cant remember.[/QUOTE]
I have trained Longfist, Mantis, Lou Han, Baji, WC, Zimen, Chinese wrestling, Taiji, XingYi, and limited Bagua (8 palms only). My point of view may not have to do with any particular style but TCMA in general.
If you don’t let your opponent to put any weight on his leading leg, he can’t punch you. That’s the simplest soultion against any striker. In other words, if you pay attention on his weight shifting, you have just make the fight much simpler.
Just like the WC “chain punches”, there is a “chain kicks” that you constantly “step (not kick)” on the knee of your opponent’s leading leg. This will put your opponent in defense mode and interrupt his punch.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1084626]Kick him, the leg is always longer than the arm. Let your opponent to run into your kick like in the following clip at 4.26.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G31h5gbazwU[/QUOTE]
Good luck, a boxer doesn’t jab just to jab. If you’re being jabbed its because hes already in your range to jab, making your leg being longer than his arm, irrelevant.
Anyways, trying to control a jab is superfluous. Timing > Jab. You don’t need control, pak-sao punch works because, well, boxers do pak-sao punch all the time.
Only its called parry then jab, or parry then cross.
So yeah, don’t kick him, thats flat out idiotic. By the time you get your leg up in the air the cross is already hitting your face and by the time you kick, he’s at the hook and its over.
If you want defense against a jab, go to a boxing gym and see how they do it, then work out your approach in wing chun.
[QUOTE=AdrianK;1084633]Good luck, a boxer doesn’t jab just to jab. If you’re being jabbed its because hes already in your range to jab, making your leg being longer than his arm, irrelevant.
Anyways, trying to control a jab is superfluous. Timing > Jab. You don’t need control, pak-sao punch works because, well, boxers do pak-sao punch all the time.
[/QUOTE]
Excellent points and the reason why i started this thread. I agree pak sao and punch would be the first and simplest answer. I was just wondering of some other methods to work against the jab.
[QUOTE=AdrianK;1084633]If you’re being jabbed its because hes already in your range to jab, [/QUOTE]
If you let your opponent to enter your kicking range, that will be your fault in the first place.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1084631]I have trained Longfist, Mantis, Lou Han, Baji, WC, Zimen, Chinese wrestling, Taiji, XingYi, and limited Bagua (8 palms only). My point of view may not have to do with any particular style but TCMA in general.
[/QUOTE]
Thats interesting. I am going to cross train in another kung fu style after i get a good base in the wing chun. I was considering either the wudang arts hung gar or 7 star mantis. Any ideas which of those would be the easiest to transition to? Also which style(s) do you currently train under a sifu?
[QUOTE=AdrianK;1084633]Good luck, a boxer doesn’t jab just to jab. If you’re being jabbed its because hes already in your range to jab, making your leg being longer than his arm, irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
When we face a boxer, we can always just drop down our knee and beg for mercy, or we can “try” to use our TCMA skill to beat the sh!t of him. 
If we let our opponent to enter our kicking range, that will be our fault to start with. To be able to guard our territory is the most important training in TCMA. Again, by watching our opponent’s weight distributation, we can make the fight “simpler”.
[QUOTE=shaolin_allan;1084636]Thats interesting. I am going to cross train in another kung fu style after i get a good base in the wing chun. I was considering either the wudang arts hung gar or 7 star mantis. Any ideas which of those would be the easiest to transition to? Also which style(s) do you currently train under a sifu?[/QUOTE]
IMO, the white crane system (both are southern CMA) will be the easiest style to transite to after WC.
I don’t train any particular style at this moment. I’m more interesting in the kick, punch, lock, throw, and ground game integration.
[QUOTE=shaolin_allan;1084634]I was just wondering of some other methods to work against the jab.[/QUOTE]
Not sure if you are only interested in the WC solution against a boxer. To exchange punches against a “boxer” is just like to use wrestling against a Judo guy, it may not be the best option.
Besides kicking, there are many other options such as:
- borrow his commitment and throw him.
- wrap his arms and enter.
- …
By keeping a boxer to be outside of his striking range, or inside of his clinch range will both be good options.
That’s not necessarily true… box a kicker, kick a boxer…
In Muay Thai strategy, one method against a strong boxer is to chop down his legs, kill his root, balance, everything.
One thing my coach always says is “every time he tries to punch you, or get close to punching you, kick him in the leg, punish him for coming forward every single time.”
This is easier to show you in video or a fight footage, so I give you here - Daniel Ghita vs. Sergei Kharitonov.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdZILV0it7U
Kharitonov has been boxing forever since being in Russian military, also doing professional boxing for a while now, on and off. He’s not the best boxer for sure, but he has incredibly heavy hands, retard toughness, and retard stamina. Anyway, he’s a pretty **** good boxer for MMA and K-1 standards.
Ghita is a Muay Thai wrecking machine. He is quite tall and rangy, has power in both hands, and has incredible kicks all around. Just incredible technique in this guy.
Watch how Ghita keeps Sergei at bay, punishes him for coming in, then if Sergei is too close, he clinches/grapples to neutralize his boxing.
yeah that is true. if you take away their root then it weakens the strikes
I understand we are talking about WC strategy but why cannot WC stylist, or any stylist use the Muay Thai style “chopping leg kick” is beyond me.
Use what is effective.
Sure stomp kicks and side kicks to the legs works too, before anyone says I said you can’t use them…
[QUOTE=Violent Designs;1084641]That’s not necessarily true… box a kicker, kick a boxer… every time he tries to punch you, or get close to punching you, kick him in the leg, punish him for coming forward every single time…[/QUOTE]
Agree with all the above.
I’m not sure about to box a kicker is the best idea. I prefer catch the kicker’s leg and then sweep/hook his standing leg and take him down.
Again, I’m not sure people only want to hear about the WC solution or general TCMA solution here.
[QUOTE=Violent Designs;1084643]I understand we are talking about WC strategy but why cannot WC stylist, or any stylist use the Muay Thai style “chopping leg kick” is beyond me.
Use what is effective.
Sure stomp kicks and side kicks to the legs works too, before anyone says I said you can’t use them…[/QUOTE]
The “chopping leg kick” may not be a popular strategy in TCMA “yet”, but I’m sure it will be soon. Not to allow your opponent to put weight on his leading leg (similiar to MT’s chopping leg kick) is an important strategy in TCMA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jWBs5w6HpQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3NKF2MICeo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k52BcVINbbE
really any good solutions can be used in our wing chun and leg kicks are a great idea
What is you’re sparring or fighting someone and no legs kicks are allowed?
Anyway, I have an answer since there are boxers training in TWC including a professional. But since what we do is be criticized by most WC people I’m not even going into it. I know that it works for me and that’s enough.
Phil why bring it up and not go into it? To make us jealous? lol
[QUOTE=shaolin_allan;1084624]I know everyone is always worried and/or focused on either learning grappling or learning anti-grappling when doing wing chun. what would you say the simplest techniques are to be able to work against a good street boxer who keeps throwing fast jabs and pulling his hand back before it could be controlled?[/QUOTE]
I agree with Youknowwho. Another way to deal with jabs is to intercept, stick and follow them home. This is not an exclusively Wing Chun approach as ity is used in other Internally inclined TCMAs. Also, as you can imagine, it is not an easy skill to master, as it requires a lot of sensitivity training and “listening” abilities.
If you hold your both hands into a big fist, you then hide your head behind your 2 arms. Your triangle arms posture can function as a wedge (almost like boxing guard). It can be used as both offense and defense. You can use it as rhino horn and hunt for your opponent’s head. That’s also a very “abnormal” TCMA fighting strategy, stupid, simple, but effective.
http://www.genxnews.com/2009/11/rhino-horn-costlier-than-gold/
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1084637]If we let our opponent to enter our kicking range, that will be our fault to start with. To be able to guard our territory is the most important training in TCMA. Again, by watching our opponent’s weight distributation, we can make the fight “simpler”.
[/QUOTE]
Given that WCK is a close quarter combat system, why would I try to keep him outside his punching range. which coincidently is also my favorite range ?