OK, I finally decided to give it a go. Since the forum changeover I can’t search any old threads (rub, can you ask Gene to fix it someday so we can search that old stuff - lots of gold there). So I decided to ask some advice. My references say 3g/day. My creatine packet says 3g/day. I always thought 3g/day. No loading period for me. I also bought some maltodextrin or dextrose or something in case the theory about loading with high-GI carbs is true (I need to research that again too). Here’s what I need help with:
(i) 3g/day - what are you doing?
(ii) Take with what? I haven’t tasted it yet but it says mix with water (and optional high-GI carbs)
(iii) When? I already have a big breakfast of ~35g protein + 4-500ml milk + ~50g fibre + more milk + strong coffee. I don’t want to take it to work for during the day. Before dinner? Before bed? Before PTP in the morning?
I’ve got 500g so I’ll probably cycle a month or two on, a month off and see how I go.
mickey, I know you’ll say not to do it, but I have a long history of self-experimentation and I’ve decided to give it a go since it suits my personal training regime to a T so you won’t change my mind ;).
I would suggest 5g per day, no loading period. Your cycle suggestion sounds good.
On workout days, take it PWO with high carbs to use the insulin spike. Grape juice is great for taking it with, but that depends how rich you are! Don’t take it with anything acidic (like orange juice) and not when you have soffee, so not with breakfast. Otherwise, it doesn’t really matter when. PWO is the ideal time as the insulin spike will work for you, assuming you take it with a carbs boost. Do you take a carb/protein shake after training or anything? If so, just put it in there.
PWO is breakfast for me. I get up, do my PTP and superset with some wooden dummy, bagwork and skipping then breakfast at like 7:30am. I couldn’t resist and tried 3-5g last night before bed and another 3-5g this morning PWO. I took it with water and the dextrose which made a nice syrupy-sweet drink. Straight after I had my protein, then the bran cereal and coffee probably 30min after the creatine mix.
So how do you measure 3g or 5g? I’m using my protein scoop which is 8-9g protein/scoop. I’m using about 1/3-1/2 scoop and hoping the specific gravity of creatine powder is similar.
Wha? Is it him? Is it really him? (hand rushes to right eye to hold back tear)
Its Tobeee!!! He’s back, he’s back!!! (running in circles with palms upward and face up smiling at the sun)
Toby, its been years. How ya doing?
So you are going to do that creatine thing, huh?
1- Make sure your your creatine is pure. Mad cow in any form should be avoided.
2- Drink LOTS of water. This is to be differentiated from other liquids that contain water.
3- Especially drink more water than usual during your workouts.
4- Take a few “before” pictures just in case you grow a strange appendage that, somehow, you always believed was there. Give them to your significant other for a possible future intervention.
Good Luck to You. Keep in mind that your life has a value greater than that which corporations place on it.
Fair enough, but I’d hold off on the coffee if that’s possible. It won’t make much difference, but if you could leave an hour or more before the coffee it would be a bit better. Mind you, I know one guy that does his morning workout, then has breakfast and stirs his creatine into his coffee and he swears by it. Go figure!
So how do you measure 3g or 5g? I’m using my protein scoop which is 8-9g protein/scoop. I’m using about 1/3-1/2 scoop and hoping the specific gravity of creatine powder is similar.
Close enough. Truth is, you could go right up to around 8 - 10g a day without worrying to much, but I’d always err on the side of caution. Make sure the scoop is a bit less than half full and you’ll be right. Taking it with the dextrose is ideal as it needs a good CHO transport system to be most effective.
BTW Tobes, keep us informed on this thread. I’m doing a kind of unofficial survey on creatine use at the moment, so I’d be interested in your thoughts and results from its use.
If it’s plain creatine mix it with juice. I’ve heard grape works the best. I used cranberry juice.
If it’s already got sugar in it then just mix it with water, and know that you paid too much for the “secret activation ingredient” that is actually just the same sugar you could have gotten from grape juice
To measure, the side of the container should say something like:
Serving size: about 5g (1 1/2 teaspoons)
So then you get a teaspoon or whatever and measure based on that.
I wanted to get back to this thread sooner, but I had to struggle through mickey’s waves of sarcasm. Wow!
mickey, what’s the rationale behind only water? I drink at least a couple of litres of milk a day and 1L of green tea + assorted juices. I don’t drink much pure water.
mickey and Iron, here’s my trusty supplier. His prices have slowly gone up over the last year or so, but he sells good protein anyway. From the packet I got and the webpage I’m pretty confident in the quality of the creatine.
Serp, I’ll drop in on this thread with my feelings in the short-medium term.
Serp? Looks OK, but I’ve not seen that brand before. Take it with some form of carbs for the insulin boost discussed before. Also, you should drink plenty of regular water whatever else you drink. Other things like tea are diruetic and actually cost you total water and things such as milk have very little water content incomparison to volume. You need water for good cell function. Try drinking at least a litre a day, two preferably - you’ll definitely notice the difference.
Whoops :p. Mmm. I find water boring, even though Perth water’s not bad at all compared with other places in Oz (so I hear - e.g. Adelaide).
Update - just did HIIT and felt strong. Probably psychosomatic. PTP I can’t give an objective opinion just yet because I put on some Easter chocolate weight and I’ve got a niggling groin injury so either way I’m not training how I was a month ago.
Toby,
“Trac” creatine by MHP (http://maxperformance.com/products/trac.shtml) has been quite effective and powerful for me. It truly powerful stuff when I compared it to my old experience of loading EAS creatine or the HP formula years ago. TRac is easy to use and no loading. I drink it 30 mins before my CST workout or during my workout. I dont use this product often and only use Trac when I feeling low in energy and not motivated.
Well if you aren’t loading it’ll be awhile before you notice a strength increase. The “little jump” you’ve heard about only happens when you load in my experience.
You’ve gotta drink water Toby since the creatine will be drawing water away from other functions and storing it in your skeletal muscle. That’s what it’s supposed to do, but it won’t work to enhance performance if your water intake is inadequate. You need at least a couple of litres of water a day in addition to your regular needs when using creatine.
Items 1,2, and 3 were serious. The rest all in fun. The intervention thing is an “in between.”
I strongly suggested plain water because I noticed that you do not have enough of it in your diet. The “trick” with creatine is that is causes cell volumization through the absorption of water; therefore, your muscles look bigger. In doing so, it takes away water that is necessary for elimination through the skin, kidneys, liver, and intestines. Your body will need the extra water. Fluids alone will not do it for you. A backed up septic system was how I described the goings on inside your body if water consumption is not enough.
Creatine’s true use is in helping cattle stay warm in winter. They run to build up heat in the body and then stand close together, keeping the warmth in. You may have noticed how your body temperature increases after eating steak or beef ribs. That is the creatine at work, holding the water in your cells, restricting respiration. In the past days of bodybuilding, the eating of steak was encouraged because its ability to help the bodybuilder put on size.
In training, you will need the extra water to avoid overheating. Sudden death from overheating (heat stroke) is a real possibility with creatine.
I just took a look at your supplier. They don’t say much about their source. Where are the cattle located?
Not to say creatine doesn’t work, but keep in mind that when a lot of people go on it they kind of get their workouts and diets in check, too, so some of the gains people get may just be from being very strict with their workouts and diets. Not that that’s a bad thing.
The same thing can happen with roids. Someone kinda works out for a while, decides they want to do a cycle, and then goes balls out in the gym during their cycle. Yes, the drugs helped them a lot, but also the fact that their workouts and diet were spot on contributed, too.
I’m tired and I can’t think, but you know what I mean.
I noticed a bit of a difference when I was using creatine. I’d bet some of it was due to the fact that I was much more consistent with my workouts and diet during this time, but I’d bet a bigger part of it was due to the creatine itself. It was like I could get a few extra reps, and my cycles always ended a little heavier than I thought they would.
ou want to supply a source for this? I’d love to see the studies.
Tobes - I find creatine to be quite effective in aiding recovery and boosting performance, but the strength and size gains it’s reputed to impart are negligible in my experience.
That’s why I’m taking it - I don’t care about size. Suits my PTP and HIIT type training and I thought I’d give it a go.
mickey, the link describes where the creatine comes from - some German variety off the top of my head.
Everyone - I don’t get why I need water as opposed to all the other liquid I drink but I take the point - I’ll try to increase my intake. As it is, I should’ve mentioned that I usually drink juice with 1/2 water, 1/2 juice. Does that count? How much water do I need in proportion before it counts?
No studies just simple biology 101. What are the many purposes of water in your system? Take the time to study that. It is worth it.
I would not want studies; I want healthy people.
I read the TwinLab report about creatine when they were bringing it to the market. It was incredibly pro creatine. They wrote about the perks in their Muscular Development magazine and, somehow, omitted the drawbacks. This was during the time when they were supposed to have been going all natural. Former bodybuilder Rick Wayne wrote for them because of this new direction. They even managed to get the late Steve Reeves invloved because of the “all natural steroid free” snowjob they were putting forth.
They failed to convince me. I saw what they were omitting and was able to see the potential dangers of taking such a product. And I am not afraid to share that with others.
Toby, I cannot tell you how much water to take because I do not touch the stuff. I simply noticed from your listing that your organs are already working to filter what you are presently taking. Taking creatine would intensify the process because it takes water away.
Water (just good old water on it’s own) is essential for proper cell function. If the cells have to filter out other stuff to get to the pure water, the less effective the drink is in providing water to the cells.
And herein lies your problem. I long ago learned to ignore healthy people! The thing is, people will report all sorts of different levels of health and only when large numbers of people are studied in controlled conditions will real information become clear.
And suggesting that I take the time to study the many purposes of water is a little condescending, don’t you think? I’m advocating the intake of plenty of water. It’s this claim that I was asking for verification of:
In training, you will need the extra water to avoid overheating. Sudden death from overheating (heat stroke) is a real possibility with creatine.
Can you use “simple biology 101” to explain that for me? (The creatine/heat stroke link). Also, as it’s a “real possibility” I’d like to see some sources citing it as occurring, because I’ve never seen any to date. Therefore, if it’s never actually happened, it’s hardly a real possibility.
And for the record, I don’t necessarily condone creatine use. I try to avoid all artificial supplements as I think we operate best from a natural diet. However, I have used creatine (and other supplements) before for a number of reasons. For one, it’s my job to know about this stuff, so I like first hand experiencial knowledge.
I still occasionally use creatine when my work/training load is particularly high, but it’s rare that my load is high enough to warrant it. I can maintain a pretty full on schedule without feeling the need for it. But I won’t scaremonger about it like you are without some evidence.
“If it has never happened it’s hardly a real possibility”
Okay Mo Lung. If that is what you believe I will not contend with you. There have been no long term studies with creatine. The current users are the guinea pigs.
I was not at all trying to be condescending when I suggested that you look into the uses of water in your body. It gives you a good picture of how things work and how water is so necessary. If you are telling Toby that water is just necessary for the cells to filter out their garbage, then I say there are more things that water helps with. It is not an issue of intelligence vs stupidity,it is more about becoming a better informed consumer. Addititonally when you understand its uses, you will understand the potential dangers when inadequate amounts of water is present. You really should not need a study for the knowledge you have gained.
My main issue with creatine is the result of cell voluminization as a result of its use. Water is pulled into the cell expanding its size. This is water that is used for removing wastes from the body as well as maintaining body temperature. Now you have less of it to do those functions. If you are working out intensely, you will need to hydrate yourself more than usual. If you don’t, your body will heat up. If you are not perspiring while doing a protracted period of intense exercise, you should be concerned.
When it comes to studies, the manufacturers depend largely on the ignorance of the consumer and tend to spoon feed them the info that they want to hear. It was done with steroids, andro, and with creatine.
I am happy that you have never had a bad experience with creatine. And I hope that current users do not experience any future malady as a result of creatine use.
News Flash for those creatine users:
When the product came out and I read the Twinlab report, I actually went out and bought a bottle. Then I started to think about the things that they were not talking about and I threw the bottle away. I never took one pill.
I was able to see through the BS. I am just trying to help others.
Mo Lung, if you want a study, it will not happen. There is no money in it for the corporations
Looks OK, but I’ve not seen that brand before. Take it with some form of carbs for the insulin boost discussed before. Also, you should drink plenty of regular water whatever else you drink. Other things like tea are diruetic and actually cost you total water and things such as milk have very little water content incomparison to volume. You need water for good cell function. Try drinking at least a litre a day, two preferably - you’ll definitely notice the difference.