CLF differences between branches

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
1

ok i agree that a comparison of each branch and focus on some differences and similarities. and im going to put what we come up with here on the webpage, so those who participate can be proud of contributing.

so i wanted to start a discussion on what your observations of other branches and what they do or don’t do that’s different to your school.

For example, the horses between our branches vary even when it comes to the same exact horse. In Lau Bun’s Branch the horse in a little wider than the shoulders and our tails are level with our knees. but i have seen in both the Buk Sing and Lee Koon Hung branches some very long and wide horses.

of course we notice that buk sing really focuses on getting the most out of a technique especially when they use their panther fists.

some schools do really low to the ground sweeps when others stay only mid level.

so you see where i’m going with this. so if you would like to see what we come up with posted up on my website for the world to see all branches working together lets jump on it.

hsk

2

another thing,

what do you do or your school does that you see others don’t?

or even see things that they do and you wouldn’t.

hsk

3

One obvious thing I notice is the difference between Bak Sing and Fut San Hung Sing vs. Chan Family is the that Chan Family uses the “double puhn kiuh” also known as “daat jeung, gok ahn.” Maybe I am wrong about Fut San Hung Sing not using this technique but its like everywhere in the LKH forms.

Another thing I notice is the more blatant extension and whipping motion in Bak Sing. To me this looks very ugly, slow and a good way to hyper extend your joints. I’ve always been taught that everything should move together. Some parts may move in front of other parts but they all move in concert. Also, not too extended or you set yourself up for a joint lock.

4

Double poon kiu is with palms facing up and thumbs facing outwards right?

sorry, chinese terminology is not my thing, but if it is the same on im thinking of then it is taught, the singapore hung sing does it as well.

but true, not too common.

5

Yep you got it.

6

ok then,

yeah its in the hung sing stuff, there should be a photo attached.

this is the one right?

7

the one thing i will focus on first is the basics like the different ways to execute a simple chop choy.

another thing i’ve noticed when some schools execute the cum jeung but use it as a palm strike they usually go straight like a push. but in our school its always used to crush with intead of a push.

hsk

8

how many have seen the Movie Tom Yum Goong?

there is a lot of stuff and the he executes elbows and such just like the way we do in our school. theres even a part where one guy threw hella punches and Tony Jaa using both hands one after another started slapping down his hands, thats’s how we use it as well, and was what my si-suk gung Kenneth used against bruce lee.

But fu pow, in real life application how would “YOU” use the double Poon Kiu’s?
can you come up with any other applications for it?

hsk

9

No, sorry that’s not it. That is called double yeung kiuh or mirror hand. Double puhn kiuh has the hands doing different things that’s why it could also be called “dat jeung, gok an.”

FP

10

ok here is something that i’ve been keeping under my hat because to me its a step above the average fu jow (tiger Claw).

now you know one of my favorite hand shapes is the tiger claw. but this is why the buk sing kwoon is so well known for their fighting.

there is an old man in China who is around like 97-98 years old. he was one of the older students of Tam Sam like Lun Chee is. this man only calls his school hung sing kwoon because that was the name of his teachers (Tam Sam) school was.

anyway, my sifu was shown and new hand to us called “FU SAU” which is just like the tiger claw except that the thumb is not used to tear, the thumb is more like a brace that goes under the chin while your fingers reach out and tear the face.

in the photo attached the inside part of the thumb is what i’m talking about.

hsk

11

so fu pow what are the hands doing then?

we may just call it something else thats why im asking.

hsk

12

is this stuff being put on a site now, or are you getting all the input now, and then going to put it up later?

13

rick this is the drawing board and all is welcome to add their input. ultimately i am going to decipher everything anyway with my POV, but e’rayones observations are welcome.

then i will add it to the 3 families history site.

hsk

14

Fu-Pow mentioned how he did not care for the whipping, na d full extension of Buk-Sing. I have studeied a smatterring of Chan family ,which seems to have a definate Hung flavor-shorter, more powerful appearance, but I really like the Buk-Sing’s openness. It has a “lighter” feel-hard to explain, but I have seen it played and it has a feeling of continuous flow,like Tai-Chi (not slow, or soft looking, just fluid) and it ihas great running and leaking skills, not to mention a charp choy that will hit you from 6 feet away. It is interesting to see two people play these different family styles side by side. Not to see which is better, but to appreciate the development and diversity of the systems.
Is there any footage of these forms being done? If at all possible could it be put on yourtube or puterfile, as my pc doesnt seem to show aol media-it crashes.

15

10-t,

yeah i agree. but the one thing i’ve noticed is that the buk sing and hung sing disciples approach their clf with the intentions of hurting someone.

buk sing has things like “the flying panther punch” which is devestating if executed properly.

but can you imagine if the today’s top choy lee fut masters of all three branches came together for an intensive study to sift thru it all and extrapulate the best of all three branches?

but, each branch even in the same school has slight differences because each individual will add in what works best for them. for example, sifu george may be a big guy and because of that he will focus on things that work for him. that then gets transmitted and after a few students it will become the norm, while sifu george’s classmate sifu fred is a lot smaller, quicker, and a little more fiesty due to his size. so he will pass on that type of mentality and his students will pick that up. and unfortunatley that will lead to a few different ways even in your own school to be formed.

my sifu watches me teach, and has made comments that frank does his gung fu his way, and i have mine.

thats the great thing about gung fu. my sifu gave me the tools, and taught me to make Choy Lee Fut “mine” so i developed my method of usage based on my own body type, what types of techniques i feel suit me better, and so on.

we really do need to bring choy lee fut together.

frank

16

HSK,
QUOTE: “ultimately i am going to decipher everything anyway with my POV”

NOW IS THAT A RECIPE FOR DISASTER?:rolleyes: :smiley:

HSK, YOU CAN’T EVEN GET THE NAMES OF THE TECHNICAL TERMS RIGHT…SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PUT EVERYTHING THROUGH YOUR “DECIPHERING”?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :smiley:

17

Your Momma!!!:d

18

hsk, to help answer your question about the double poon kiu:

a poon kiu is a circular block, and there are a few variations of it in the LKH line (I’m a 7th generation student, grandmaster is my si-gung)

A) Dahn poon kiu - this is the inside to outside circular block often seen when we execute sow choys, i.e. left hand circles clockwise as we shift from right to left gong ma and throw the right sow choy. The left hand executes the dahn, or single, poon kiu.

B) Seurng (double) poon kiu(a) - this is the technique that I think fu pow is referring to. The most common place we see this technique is in the following sequence - usually something like diu ma (cat stance) chin la-seurng poon kiu - sei ping ma chop choy (or fujow, or chin ji choy, or chang jeurng, or whatever). In this technique, the left hand drops downwards, palm up, all the way around into a grab or a cum jeurng at the end. In mid-rotation, the right hand flips forward and performs its own circle, ending above the shoulder, where you can follow up with a yum chop choy. The first block is actually the right hand making contact with the forearm, followed by the left hand’s grab or cum jeurng. Two circles –> Double poon kiu.

C) Seurng poon kiu (b) - a variant on the double poon kiu, seen before the chang fu knee kick techniques and sow geuk sweeps, as well as sow choys. Unlike variation (a), this one is better done in a more square stance rather than a cat stance, although (a) can work in a stance other than a cat stance as well. This one starts basically the same as variation (a) but is more east-west. Again, the left hand drops and then the right hand performs it’s forward circle. This time, however, the left hand follows a wider path - it shoots all the way to the left as you step towards the left, then circles clockwise inside to out, as in the dahn poon kiu, effectively “sticking” the opponents strike, then sweeps it back outside, opening the opponent up for the sow choy following up.

Hopefully that made sense - It’s probably way easier to show than type!

Fu-pow, Sisuk, or anyone else, please make any corrections if you see something stupid :stuck_out_tongue:

GL

19

Its Always Better To Show And If Anyone Wants To Post Up A Picture That Would Help.

The Thing Is Up To My Sigung Jew Leong Lau Bun’s School Was All Chinese. In My School Under My Sifu We Rarely Use Chinese Terminologies, All Our Own Terms For What We Do. Usually In English.

I Am Most Confident That All Choy Lee Fut Does The Same Things In One Fashion Or Another. Only Minor Individualistic Modifications Set Them Apart From This Teacher Or That Teacher.

Watching The Lkh Lineage As Well As Other Clf Schools, I’ve Realized That We Have The Same Stuff. Where Some Schools Fractionate A Technique We Have Pretty Much Blended One Into The Other.

As In Our Circle Chop Choy. We Use The Downward Circle Block But Instead Of Stopping At The Block We Blend Something Very Similar To “kum” Or Cover Palm But It Turns Into The Same Poon Kiu And Clears The Punch And Then We Throw A Chop Choy.

Our Circle Block Is Used In My Opinion To Block Two Punches With The Same Hand. Lets Say Your Lead Hand Is Right, And Left Is In Reverse, Your Opponent Throws A Low Punch To The Stomach, But The Shoots A Punch To You Face. So Instantly From The Downward Circle Block Continue The Motion And Block The Punch Coming At Your Face.—two Punches Same Hand.

Was That Clear, Or Should I Try And Post Pictures?

Hsk

20

Some pictures would probably help but let me see if I got it.

I think we are on the same page here, if I were to do it I would do the poon kiu and block with my forearm on the way down and as I circle back I would stop the high punch with a cum jeurng at the opp.'s forearm - is that what you had in mind?

Some pictures would be handy =D